|This is one of the current ProLeauge maps, Oct 2006, replacing Iron Curtain.|
|wtf it's so open. If someone submitted this map to this site I would tell them to go back and finish it -.-|
|Zerg loves this map. 3 gas on their main and natural. Not as big a deal for zerg to expand. Major imbalances, I have no idea how this became a proleague map.|
|stylish decoration, but minonlys are badly placed in my opinion. theyre too close to each other. |
three early gas is just anti-p a little. p also benefits from the 3 gas, but they neeed many many minerals too so have to expand, but all expansions are so far, while zerg doesnt need to massexp.
with 3 gas i imagine a zerg player beat a p with only mutalisks.
|lol, lurx only :p|
Also it is possible to play some defiler/lurker action early on this map Oo A zerg that takes a second main w/ expansion is unlikely to lose vs a protoss...
|It's a 2v2 only map,so there is no main to take. Oo|
|Ok then^^ How should I know with my limited insight into KorLeagues^^|
|iron curtain was a better 2v2 map.|
|well it is imba in 2v2 too imo|
|so borring, so plain|
|looks like galaxy prime|
|If this map was post first here i would read now:|
"No building space"
"Too much gas at mains and natural"
"Min onlys are placed bad"
"Go read some articles..." :)
Anyway i also wonder how this is a pro map...
And imo, so much gas may balance PvZ. I think protoss will be more powerfull, because one archon is 100 min and 300 gas. And we all know that archons are a very dedaly units vs zerg, while their backs are covers whit high templars, which also need more gas...
|Well, since naming the problems won't change the map, these comments are useless so we skipped them and stick to "bad map"-posts ;)|
Well, dark swarm > archons, and defiler costs gas too ;)
|lol swarm really doesn't do that much for lings against archons. They get slaughtered just the same. Just helps lurks =/|
But yeah, crap map pretty much.
"Go read some articles" lol yeah, I loved that.
|lolz. Archs + swarm = only splash damage = gg no re|
|archon do 3-4 damage under swarm instead of the 30? i think thats not a little difference|
reaver man, reaver archons are wasted resources in a late game of a pvz
|3-4 instead of 30 PLUS 3-4 ;)|
reavers roxx, but extremly hard to control together with a latgame army + production :)
|? When I fight archons under swarm they rape lings and whatnot, it's as if there was no swarm.|
|Dunno what you are doing wrong, when I use swarm against archons, they fall like flies.|
|Some dudes here don't even know the gameplay of the game and they go theory crafting? |
WTF ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? And in the end some dude who don't know how to play StarCraft will teach my about balancing PvZ in my maps...
Everyone from here who is not 100% sure what swarm do vs 1/2 terran untis vs 1/2 protoss units or vs zerg units and the opposite just start the game and have some tests.
WTF THIS GAME IS ALMOST 10 YEARS OLD! SHAME ON YOU!
|It's not only 1/2 of terran units :p|
SCVs and Firebats are the only actual units that are not affected. Well, Medics and Dropships are not either, but their damage potential is kinda... low... And Valks only rarely attack ground units (that is, if they are irradiated :p )
Spells (including nuke), splash and mines work normally under swarm too, but the whole rest of a terrans army is rendered useless when it comes to swarms ;)
For protoss, you have to know that an Archon is a ranged unit (pretty often people consider them melee, then again I ask myself how a melee unit could attack air units...). It's splash is the only thing that does damage then, and it's the same splash type as tanks have, just only 3/7th of it.
Reavers are not ranged, they don't attack, actually ;) Scarabs explode, which counts as melee + splash.
Lurkers are not ranged either. They only do linear splash, no melee or ranged damage, similar to the firebat (which has something like max. 3 hits of linear splash, it's really weird...)
So, LGI, did I prove my knowledge of swarm sufficiently?^^
|Shit i've just screw my long comment...|
In short words your archon splash dmg is not right vs mutes/writes or everything else that you can gather at one spot, or burrow 5 lurkers at one spot, they will die in the same time and they will take the same dmg. The same goes for tanks. Go test some games.
About the theory crafting knowledge thing/shit/crap. I say all of you go play the game and find out yourself. Don't wait someone like spinesheath to let you know about some things of the game, because even if he is right about 90% of what he said, he is wrong about other things (look above), AND there is more to learn.
SO EVERBODY GO PLAY!
|Umm, I guess it was just a misunderstanding Oo|
I know how radial splash works in SC, believe me. There are 2 splash radii, one with 50% and one with 25% of the base damage. Ok, I won't insist on these exact values, but I am quite sure, and the existance of the 2 radii is certain. EVERY unit within that radius (air is not affected when a tank shoots, of course, and vice versa) takes the respective damage. That's what I would expect from the word "splash" alone, anyways...
So, I was NOT wrong with this...
Oh, and since you mentioned burrow: Burrowed units under swarm don't get (radial) splash damage, but of course melee and linear splash is applied.
|and swarm is the reason zergs begin to dominate starcraft :[ its finally being used to its max potential|
|And still the queen is not used at all - though it CAN be devastating :D Once you already tech to hive, you can afford a queen which can "take out" a command center that would have survived otherwise. Or how poor marines look under ensnare^^|
But don't worry. Other races will rise up once again. It was a back and forth of the races all the time.
And don't forget that Oov still owns July ;)
|well as blizzard stated , the balance is really up to the maps, and WCG proved that we are not doing that yet|
OOv might have 2-1 July but look at the maps: azalea T>Z statistics Gaia Mass expos but very hard to flank so can go either way and PA is very T>>>Z and surprisingly this was the game July took.
|Imo it'd still be Oov > July, even on other maps. But hey, I am a zerg player, I can't complain ;)|
|This map is now back in the Proleague as a replacement for the ridiculous DMZ; I look forward to more "normal" 2v2s (though Vampire also lends itself to alternative playing style, it's the good kind of alternative).|
oh and July > Oov ;)
modified by pOOwarriOr-
|this argument about dark swarm seems pretty silly, since they all could be talking about different patches O,.,o|
|any REAL z player would feel how drasticly blizz keeps messing with the swarm splash damage thing.... one patch tanks seem to do full damage even if lurks are under swarm... next patch they only do 10 max dmg|
|this comes from how swarm works. it doesnt make unit invincible to ranged attacks, the swarm only moves the point of impact (iirc it is moved a bit towards the shooting unit). thus, the real tankhit does NOT hit a single unit under the swarm, but the unit still stays in the splash radius (the point of impact isnt moved that far).|
so basically, if you know exactly how the point is moved, you can target certain units (like, a defiler) by manually shooting another unit under the swarm - in a way that the point of impact of tanks is moved onto the defiler.
Dark Swarm Cost: 100 Energy
Dark Swarm appears on the battlefield as an orange smoke cloud. The cloud encompasses a 6x6 matrix area. Units within the cloud take no damage from ranged attacks. Only units with melee, splash, or special weaponry are able to affect a unit underneath a Dark Swarm. Note that the Swarm will only protect units, and any buildings in the cloud are still vulnerable to attack by ranged weapons.
Since all airborne units possess ranged attacks, Dark Swarm is a particularly effective tool against an attack from the air when you place Hydralisks under the cloud. When used as part of an attack or defense on the ground, care must be taken to prevent enemy units from also using the Dark Swarm as protection. The Dark Swarm can also protect enemy units from the ranged attacks of your own Hydralisks, Mutalisks, and Guardians. Position your own ground forces to block the path of the enemy troops into your protective cloud.
The following units are able to damage units underneath a Dark Swarm with their normal attacks:
Protoss: Probes, Reavers, Dark Templar, Zealots, Archons
Terrans: SCVs, Firebats, Siege Tanks in Siege Mode
Zerg: Drones, Zerglings, Lurkers, Ultralisk, Broodlings, Infested Terrans
Many special abilities are also completely unaffected by the presence of a Dark Swarm including: Yamato Cannons, Spider Mines, Irradiate, EMP Shockwave, Psionic Storm, Maelstrom, Feedback, Plague, Ensnare, and Spawn Broodling.
Note: Splash damage is dealt with as if the swarm wasn't there, except for burrowed units which don't take splash damage while under the swarm.
Siege Tanks deal ranged damage + aggressive splash (damages everyone).
Archons deal ranged damage + friendly splash (only hurts other players' units).
Firebats and Lurkers deal linear splash, which is treated like melee damage.
Sometimes your units take full damage "under the swarm", when they are somewhere at the border. That's because the area of effect is a rectangle, but the swarm sprite is an ellipsoid.
So much about the REAL z players. Blizzard hasn't messed with swarm for at least 2 years, which is the time I have been playing SC with some understanding of the game.
|hmm well i guess these last 2 yrs of sc flew by fast to me; i've been playing for at least 5 with understanding|
|only workers DONT do dmg under it. i noticed that often under the swarm on SevenSins (scoutworkers)|
|do you use mirror for this map ?|
|I like this map. Simple gameplay but stylish.|