Tourney Map Pack Aspirant Suggestions
|deadline to enter maps: 2013, 12, 31 (Year, month, day)
|This is not really meant to be a competition but a permanent discussion thread where you can add mapps that you would like to see played as part of the tourney map pack.
I would also like to encourage you to discuss balance and gameplay of suggestd maps, point out bugs and make suggestions for changes and fixes.
And of course you can point out your personal favourites from the current list.
And of yourse you can help out by single-handedly updating your favourite maps.
Please only suggest maps that...
- ...are completed
- ...you consider reasonably balanced
- ...are not part of the map apck yet
- ...have not been rejected already
- ...match modern gameplay standards
I will remove rejected suggestions regularly.
The deadline to enter maps is over.
|Issues and update suggestions:
modified by Freakling
|wow, so nice. I don't know when did you do this because i was kind of inactive, but i think we can do another tour if we start from this.
|Did it over the weekend (finally). I hope that by creating a bit of infrastructure we can actually get something going... And of course I need to start mapping again.
There are lots of good very recent maps (by Crystal and others), but unfortunatyl most of them aren't finished.
I added Belshir and Cloud because I like them as SC2 map adaptions. And whereas balance may not carry over, they are very solid and interesting maps nontheless.
Yellow, Voices, Faoi, Enarey, Ridge to Ridge, Texcoco and Korhal Prode are all former ICCup maps and should be playable with minimal changes/fixes/updates. I also added some other old maps that I remembered as being very solid (Amontillado, Dread Core). Together I would pool these in cathegory "BWMN classics" and I would suggest that we cycle them, one at a time, through the map pack, it would be bad to overlook the potential that lies in the older parts of the site map pool.
Was it me who added captured silence? Anyway, I like it, apart from the rather cramped 3-expo-island. I would suggest removing the minonlies there or making it two gas expos...
Spider, Crash, Losing Temperature, Resonance and Tomorrow were part of the first map pack. I think I forgot Crystal's map... OK, there it is now... I'd definitely like to see Resonance played. Losing is a bit plain...
Finally I added some of my maps.
Lilac unicorns is slightly experimental, but I consider it worth a try. Before I am planing on some updates though...
Desertec and Pyrolysis had to be in there of coures because they demonstrate the principles of vision blockers (Pyro) and cover providing tiles (Desertec). I don't think we should feature more than one really experimental/new-mechanical map at a time though. Having one experimental/mechanic-conceptual map in each map pool I would consider definitely a good thing though.
I also added Cross Game... Although it'll probably fire back at me if I end up having to make the ovi spots for Crystal :P
modified by Freakling
|I lost my starcraft :o Plz make the ovi spots for me ^^
|p-p parents uninstall. i cant find my CD.
|I like texcoco, korhal pride, amontilado, and cross game. I think the others shouldn't be used for some reason or another.
|I think I am gonna update Cross game and add it to the map pool. But I'd rather take out Spinel then. Or else the pool gets oversaturated with low main-high nat kinda maps.
I'd rather add Desertec. Yes, I know, balance is questionable (I wouldn't trifle with blemishing it as plain anti-terran, by the way! Zerg cannot stop M&Ms with plain mutas and mines in the force fields are so damn frickin annoying... Not to speak of tanks, who suffer very little diminution of their effectiveness compared to most other ranged units), and I really think we should give that mechanics some wider exposure and playtesting.
As another (2)-map I am still in favour of Resonance.
Add one of the clasics (I'd say Texcoco or Yellow, probably Dread Core) and we'd have a map pack.
Let's talk about some maps in detail:
BelShir is bilininear... Which I do not like that much... It an Cloud probably need some small changes to better adapt them to SCBW gameplay/balance.
I have some minor changes for Lilac in mind...
Tomorrow has "snow map issue". And last time when we discussed maps for the last tournament some one demured that the ramp in front of the nat may give terran an advantage when attacking.
I still think that at some point it could be included, I consider it LastCurse's best map and some showing some wider mapper spectrum in my opinion is something we should not entirely neglect in favour of minor balance considerations (we are unlikely to attrackt that high level of players any time soon anyway, and balance is also try and error to some degree)...
Yellow seems to be OK as it is, but I find some nats harder to wall/defend than others... It's certainly a significant deviation from nowaday's straight 7/8 tile chokes... But it should be possible to adapt...
My biggest concern with Voices is, that nat to nat distance is ridiculously short, making rushes and timing attacks very strong.
Enarey isn't properly debugged... I remember workers migrating to that mineral patch behind the eggs at the nat... Getting rid of some of that weird stuff wouldn't hurt the map though.
I have two concerns with Korhal Pride First of the nat chokes are huge... Protoss basically needs to wall with the Nexus or something... Secondly the minonlies and 3rds cliff each other, at least as far as tanks are concerned, which leads to some positional imbalance. This is hard, if not impossible, to fix because of the high density of expos along the map edges...
Texcoco is a bit weird... And from the picture it looks like at least the resource placement at the E 3rd needs to be reworked...
Amontillado probably should just have the standard minerals against the edge at all mains... And the thirds are tankable from the mains, probably to varying degrees, but there's enough room to easily fix that. I really like that map, but with two other JungleTerrain maps already in the pool we can as well preserve this one for later use.
|Would Waiting to Panic! be a good map? There still are some imbalances but Im sure Chef would take the time to fix it if he knew it would get it on here?
|Thank you for the nominations! You mentioned that my maps might need some changes - is there anything specific that you think would improve them?
Edit: i accidentally a word
modified by NegativeZero
|I skimmed through the database a bit more, mostly looking through old MotMs and MotYs... I added to the list:
- my maps Everflow and Schizophrenia.
- Adrenalin Rush by trcc... I find it just plain weird and terran imba, but it was an ICCup map...
- TwoS\' Moonlight Punch Romance (what a silly name...) Could probably need some small improvements on those side expos...
- Fantasia by Siabbo... Not a MotM or anything, but it looks quite interesting, though it definitely needs some updates.
Still waiting for you guys' input!
@Zero: I see two problems, both caused by them being SC2 adaptions.
1. Everything seems oversized... I have no idea, how exactly SC2 measurements would translate into SCBW ones, and I haven't looked up the dimensions of the originals yet...
2. There are two many open, hard to defend expos. When you have a look at typical SCBW maps they have mostly choked expos that can be easily defended and walled off. However, this should be fixable by using the "too much space" (->1.)
modified by Freakling
|I get that Marjoo wanted to nominate Blackout and Lucid, but somehow forgot to do it here ;)
Also nominating: Graveyard Gardens by CrystalDrag.
|Alomst forgot about this map.
I know for a fact that the assimilator gate does not work correctly, but otherwise it should be OK.
|I really like Black Out :D
|*Sigh* Really seems like some one (just to avoid misunderstanding - I am italicising this in hope its not gonna be me...) will need to redo/majorly update that one...
|oooooo this looks fun :D
|Hey, why am I the only one who has entered maps so far?
Anyway, suggested ShÝzý
|Whoever suggested Waiting to Panic should probably address how what is but a hilarious, cheesy, imbalanced gimmick map should be part of a map pack...
|One of Freakling's space maps should definitely be in the 2nd Map Pack.
My TERU maybe? ^^
Demonio Azul also good one :)
Spider Monkey maybe, seeing as there aren\'t much diagonal symmetrical maps.
Dont know about others, these just stood out to me :)
And all ICCUP maps should be kicked off this list imo, but whatever goes..
modified by CrystalDrag
|The ICCup maps would probably need some auite heavy changes first, anynway...
But it would probably be nice to bring some of them back as "BWMN Classics" at some point...
Right now I think we have more than enough new maps though.
It'll also depend on which map, besides Gemlong (I think this one is pretty set), carries over...
I'd rather consider Silence Captured than Spider, though... But obviously I need to finish my update first....
|can we narrow it down....i mean, i don't want to analyze 30 maps..
|The narrowing down is what the other thread is for...
|Anyway, I removed some maps from the list:
- Cloud Kingdom, assuming that Crystal is working on an update anyway
- Losing Temperature, because I think it's not nearly an interesting enough map to warrant the updating required.
- Monlight Pinch Romance, bacause I think it needs a proper remake first
- Korhal Pride, because I am actually planning on doing an update/remake for that one.
- Lucid Dream, because I honestly think it doesn't work so well as a whole. I'd rather recycle some elements (backdoor expos, sunken ground middle) in future maps of mine.
If you want to focus on certain maps, to give your opinion, you should do it on the newest ones, because those are always gonna be preferred picks.
|I think following should be removed...
Graveyard Gardens - Don\'t like this, only appealing thing to me is the bridge decoration...
Dark Apology - Nat to nat short, 2 backdoors, lots of weird shenanigans.
Captured Silence - Freakling is doing a remake...
Faoi - rotation off , no easy zerg 3rd gas
following should be edited
Ridge to Ridge - The naturals need to be changed for PvZ hydra
Enarey - Tankable mains...
Dreadcore - Rotation off
Voices IV - Tankablilty of nat
Crash course - ...
Belshir - Zerg 3rd gas far away
modified by CrystalDrag
|Graveyard Gardens: Removed
Dark Apology: Removed
Captured Silence: Removed (remake still there, though it's still got a long way to go)
Faoi: Removed (it's still somewhere in the ICCup map pack, anyway, no need to bring it back)
Ridge to Ride: moved to remake
Enarey: Not sure, what you mean, I'd rather say tankable third is a problem. And some weird stuff, like those eggs and zero minerals, that make wokers bug out. Moved to remake.
Dreadcore: I think the symmetry is actually the point of that map. Too plain standard to warrant a remake, kept, just in case we ever run out of basic macro maps...
Voices IV: Nat to nat distances are also very short... Moved to remake
Crash course: Moved to remake, I would actually like to see a map with a middle like that remade.
Belshir: Can be fixed, I think, keeping it for now...
|JungleTerrain will never let us run out of basic macro maps. :)
4242 (4)Queen of Hearts
modified by CrystalDrag
|Lol, i haven't even checked this thread.
I might be able to add some more maps, idk.
and yes, Crystal, that is true :)
|Roadkill needs quite some updating first...
|Removed Yellow, because it is already an ICCUP Map..
Do we want to focus on current mappers or past mappers?....
|The idea was, to bring back some "BWMN Classics" at some time; however, there has been such a surge of great new maps now, that we won't have to fall back to that for a very long time...
I added Voidrim (something standard with a slightly unusual symmetry can always come in handy) and Tar Basin [people on ICCup asked for 96▓ maps, so I made one... There were also requests for island maps, so maybe some one can work on that :)]
Also added Frostmourne and Nature Reagent, assuming that Crystal will finish them to their full potential soon; as well as Blackjack.
modified by Freakling
|Perhaps Yellow or Faoi may come back (with maybe some editting)
Voidrim is nice, but players may refuse to play on it due the picture alone :D
I havent have enough time to finish them, but they will be finished! :)
Blackjack is for the majority finished... It is quite funny, because having the high ground mineral onlies doesnt really grant vision over the pathways at all :D
modified by CrystalDrag
|Added Overwatch, because I think it's definitely going to be a very solid map.
|Tomorrow has too much snow x.x
|I dont particulary like tomorrow either, two pathways you can only go out, and they are going up ramps as well...
|Alright, moved Tomorrow to remake. Adding some ramps, making everything more open. Reworking the thirds... Actually a lot would probably be needed to be done, though I consider it very workable.
|I don't understand, a lot of these maps are here when they supposedly don't fit the metagame....
|What do you mean exactly?
|like Belshir and Spinel Valley have really far 3rd gasses, and apparently zerg really needs an easy 3 gas.
|Cleaned this up a bit, removing all maps that made it into the current map pack.
|I feel like...
-Bel'Shire Beach doesn't fit into BW that well
-Saia: Terran OP
-Spinel Valley: No longer fits the metagame(needs a 3rd gas for ZvT)
-Pyrolysis: Very good concept, and it's a pretty good map, but since the main concept of the map is vision blockers, perhaps this map should be replaced with a new map using vision blockers in a different way...not sure how yet...
-Texcoco: Dunno if this is a valid concern, but it just looks weird, move to remake?
-Cloud of Souls: Too RoV-ish, and both RoV and CoS don't fit current meta(needs a 3rd gas for ZvT)
-Nature Reagen: Unfinished
|Bel\'shir: I think aside from the even path and blinding snow issues, it could tweaked to fit BW meta much better. But on the other hand, we have Overwatch as an original Bw concept from Neagative now, which will hopefully even get into the Defiler/iCC tour... So bottom line: Bel\'shir will probably not make it inot any map pack in the forseeable future... removed
Saia: Very neat looking map, but the expansion layout seems really crammed somehow. It may not work at all... I don\'t even know who submitted it... I agree, it should be removed. If we ever need to use an old Jungle map, it\'ll be Amontillado. removed
Spinel Valley: You are right about Z 3rd, as we have seen when we used in a mini tour some time ago, and not only for ZvT but for ZvP as well... I haven\'t been able to come up with a satisfying solution yet. moved to remake/update section
Pyrolysis is also about the expansion layout... As far as vision blockers go, both Blackjack and Tenebra can easily take its place. stays for now
Texcoco: Actually I think of all the \"classic\" maps, this one is the one with the least concern. There are only some oddly placed bits and pieces, such as minerals and doodads, here and there, that need a little make over, otherwise it\'s fine, and it\'s made by a very prominent mapper! stays for now
Cloud of Souls: Is only here, because I added all not too outdated MotMs to the list... removed
Nature Reagent: Being unfinished will be a concern when it actually comes to a decision for the next map pack. There should be a couple of months of time to finish it until then. stays for now
Adrenalin Rush: Being a former iCCup map and MotM or something do not change the fact that this is probably a rather dysfunctional concept... removed
Everflow and Schizophrenia: Also here because they are MotMs. There are certainly enough newer and better suited maps by me on the list... both removed
modified by Freakling
modified by traceurling
|Need more desert maps!
|Just remake Texcoco or something into Desert ;)
|I have 2 desert maps in the making. Both somewhat experimental...
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| sTY_leZerg-eX voted (2)SpiderMonkey as 1. choice
| sTY_leZerg-eX voted (3)Architexture as 2. choice
|LasTCursE voted (2)SpiderMonkey as 1. choice
|LasTCursE voted (4)Amontillado as 2. choice
|sTY_leZerG-eX voted (2)Tar Basin as 1. choice
|sTY_leZerG-eX voted (4)ShÝzý as 2. choice
|sTY_leZerG-eX voted (4)Amontillado as 3. choice