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Last update for (4)Darkness : 2008, 02, 11 02:56
|mapID||Mapname (comments)||map size||Author||Rating||Type||play type|
|2812|| (4)Darkness|| 128*128||Lancet||0.5||experimental||ground|
The map has been rated 22 times and got a total of 12 points
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|OK, after contributing that nice map to the King of The Hill competition, here I let my true colors fly! I really forgot what I was smoking when I made this, but it was good! |
This map is for the 2vs2 competition and must be played that way as a non-mirrror 1vs1 may be imbalanced. It's still unfinished and looks a bit ugly.
The swarms in principle should favor races with strong melee units (toss and zerg) and the presence of creep and the fact that the expo just outside the main is a minonly would favor zerg against toss if it weren't for one little detail.
The mains have a "Troy" access to that semi-island gas expo next to the mains. What this means is if you start warping two assimilators at the twin geysers (which are depleted by the way) you can get a probe through and easy access to second gas. And you don't even have to warp them the whole way, you can cancel them after the probe gets through. Terran, of course, can float a CC over there but zerg here will either have to spawn on the minonly, go "out on a limb" and get second gas at the 12, 3, 6 or 9 positions or just wait for overlord transport. However, another possibility for zerg is if your toss ally does you the "favor" of granting you access to the semi-island expo by sending a probe over to your base and warping the assimilators. Because of this a toss partner in this map would be useful.
The units that can get past the assimilators are:
Zerg: lings, hydras and defilers
Terran: rines, medics, firebats and ghosts
Toss: zeals, DTs and high templars
The map is a bit tight in several areas so this should help terran a little.
The map is not finished as you guys may want major edits so let me know what you think will make the map better (or weirder).
: ^ )
i'm crying inside!
"the panic, the vomit..
the panic, the vomit!
God loves his children...
God loves his children... YEAHHH"
(specially the vomit)
|I take it Testbug doesn't like it, LOL!|
OK, so ignore the map, just concentrate on the idea. Maybe some of you can implement it better.
|here we goooo. dark swarms .,.|
|the 8 swarms in middle, those 4 at under are more in middle path than the ones at the upper side....|
|Calling this a 2v2 map just because it's crap 1v1 is really a stretch I'm not too impressed with. I'll allow it, but only because I believe your intention really was for 2v2 (and if it wasn't, please remove the map yourself).|
"zerg here will either have to spawn on the minonly, go "out on a limb" and get second gas at the 12, 3, 6 or 9 positions or just wait for overlord transport. However, another possibility for zerg is if your toss ally does you the "favor" of granting you access to the semi-island expo by sending a probe over to your base and warping the assimilators. Because of this a toss partner in this map would be useful."
Or Zerg could just build an extractor, cancel before it starts, and just float over the geyser. I'm pretty sure that would work anyway. Terran could do that pretty easy too.
Something nice: I appreciate the implementation of the new concept, but I believe we both know you're capable of much better execution. It would be interesting if you tried to make a standard map like you did for King of the Hill, and then later ADDED an experimental feature, such as this.
Perhaps someone could implement the idea in Sound Barrier (new map, but stealing the concept), except instead of neutral buildings, opening up the path to your opponent was a matter of building geysers//assimilators (or you could do the same sort of concept with a map similar to Iron Curtain, if you're afraid of 1v1 balance).
|Actually, the map is not bad, it's the picture that is crappy (those swarms are terrible agaisnt a twilight background). In any case you brought up a very good point, I will test it and if it's true I will delete the map before your competition starts (I promise).|
BTW what bothers me about the "execution thing" is that you may spend countless weeks working on a map choosing the right tiles and slowly, one tile at a time, finally "finish" your map just to have people tell you that they think you should do major edits that will blow away most of your work. This is demoralizing and anoying to the point that I think you should not bother to do it unless you are a testbug or a flo.
Finally, IMO you don't make experimental maps by making a standard map and then "adding" the experimental features. You need the concept from the begining (and you know this anyway).
modified by Lancet
|Troy is a fairly standard map with an experimental feature tacked on... For it's time, Peaks was also very experimental, but really a standard map with an experimental feature tacked on.|
I'm just saying that if you can make a wonderful standard map, it's not a stretch to make a standard map with a minor experimental add-on, which is really the type of map that wins competitions on BWMN.
|Well in my experience even in experimental map competitions people vote for the least experimental.|
And by the way, you were right, terran can build and cancel to get an scv through, zerg has more difficulty but it is equally possible
Which, of course, means that: I'm stoopid, stooopid, stoooopid, stoooopid......
But consider the following. What I meant originally in this map (before I fell in love with the Troy gimmick) was to balance terran's dismal melee units with their ability to float buildings to island expos. So if you will allow it I will just cancel the Troy access to the island and leave it as a regular island. I will then work on the map more but those swarms are really an eyesore on this terrain. I am not sure I will be able to do anything about them.
|The map looks plain because the high ground is largely undecorated, not because of dark swarms o.o|
"Well in my experience even in experimental map competitions people vote for the least experimental."
Exactly. But even the least experimental map alters game play a lot. I know you're referring to Mirage II, but even that map incites new Build Orders (fast e bay for detecting, so you can fast expand, stuff like that), but because it was implemented in a relatively standard map, it's suddenly very popular.
The concept, I guess, it interesting enough. You take away gas from Zerg, but give them permenant Dark Swarms... but since the point of this map is that very feature, it would help a lot if your Dark Swarm placement was a little more thoughtful.
|"it would help a lot if your Dark Swarm placement was a little more thoughtful."|
Well, I thought at the foot of the ramps and at the mouth of the nats/minonlies would be adequate places to put them, but I am open to suggestions. I will work on the high ground deco.
And yeah, the concept is like you said. The races that have the strongest melee units (toss and zerg) don't get easy second gas but they get swarms and creep (for zerg). Terran in exchange gets the second gas and a map with some degree of "tightness".
|with a bit work this map can surely deliver more :)|
i'd suggest to remove/move the dark swarms - it will be heavily imbalanced, for e.g. tvz matchups, because you can block the entrance with just a few lurks; if you wont remove them, at least offer one possibility to get past those swarms; for example you can offer another route
also, the mains should be moved so that they are'nt anymore tankable from the outside;
|lol you over-compensated for the swarms. t is too strong now. And the map is just one giant turtle/drop fest anyway. You'd best hope every game is tvt.|
|Thanks for your comments.|
SiaBBo, gas issue where?
LostTampon and Nightmarjoo did you guys understand the map is for 2vs2 play? It's for Templar's competition. The idea is if you are toss or zerg and you have a terran partner he gas quicker access to gas but poor melee units to back you with. If terran tries to turtle his partner may be torn to shreds. Of course if it's a terran-terran team you are facing then you and your partner may also want to go terran-terran. I can make it so that you can't wall in, would that help?
LostTampon, the problem with the mains is that they are vulnerable to tanks dropped on the islands. I wanted to place the mineral & gas lines as far away as possible but now they are tankable from the sides, LOL! But least this way they can be defended by land units.
modified by Lancet
|bues island got gas issue ^^|
|also maybe make space for turret line in main behind minerals :)|
ive thought of this map and its the best map ive seen that got dark swarms
|MorroW thanks for your comments but the gas issue occurs predomintantly at the level of the mains. A gas issue in the nat is not such a big deal.|
Damn! I have to get my ass in gear and edit this, I feel so lazy today.
|OK, added some high ground deco and covered dozens of tank spots. Still need some more deco work but I need to work on something else, I'll get back to it later.|
|Yeah, I don't think the map is actually a 2v2 map, just a normal 1v1/whatever map with bad gameplay, as templar said earlier.|
|Nightmarjoo, I don't understand, the way I see this map for 1v1 play is: Z>P>T.|
You think that the map favors terran but LostTampon seems to think map favors zerg, read his comment, I agree. Sure terran can FE by floating a CC to the island but it needs defense. A reaver drop or mutalisks attacking there would be deadly plus the swarms give toss and zerg (that also have the creep) an edge on land.
So the way I intend to balance this is with 2v2 gameplay.
|Lol lancet, then any map with no-blocked island won't be imbalanced cuz "a reaver drop or mutalisk will would be deadly".|
|Static d in the swarms... then what?|
|Testbug, of course not, read what I wrote.|
Rye, I didn't quite understand your comment.
In any case guys, if you think that T > P&Z then suggest something I could do to correct that while retaining the concept. Perhaps add more swarms or alter their placement or add more unbuildable terrain or split the gas in the mains and so forth.
Or do you just think that giving terran (but not toss and zerg) access to gas makes them so strong that nothing can be done to balance that?
|well, maybe it'll be Zealots >>> sunken colonies/photon cannon, since static def are ranged weapons. like even if you remove the creep colony, protoss FE won't be storng even vs z even if it 3 hatch before zerglining|
|Buildings can be hit by ranged weapons under swarm fine, but cannot hit things under them.|
Terran just makes and lifts a cc with normal fe bo, z ends up with a min only. If t goes wraith with his 2gas, what's z gonna do to stop it? lol. T can just go normal build tvp, only with maybe more vultures I guess. Which won't be a problem since he can easily push to get his min only nat.
|Eerr, zerg and toss can also get second gas on the hills at 12, 3, 6 and 9.|
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