|yeah. weird ramps|
|dual gas main!|
This will be a very intresting concept to work out, it may develop very new playing styles.
zerg has no need to FE for gas since there is 2 in the main, protoss can finaly get a edge over gas on pvz, it might be a balanced pvz map, although the choke is a little to open, but going forge first wouldn't be a problem though.
addition: make this map a 2 player map because then the cornor expos are way too valueble.
modified by sky
modified by sky
modified by sky
|I know, I was going for something different. I'm not good enough at mapping to get perfection on a standard map so I went with this|
mainly for now I'm actually worried about zerg raping terran with mass lurkers, but I'm not sure.
btw sky, IA represent
|2 players? why|
|good looking map.. its sexy as hell|
|Yeah but make it a 2 player map because zerg taking other main expo's gas will be too good.|
nah terran wont have much of a problem since zerg gets 2 gas on most maps anyways, due to fast expo's. but what im mostly worried about is, what if they take the other main's too, its way to valueble compared to other expos.
I can imagine a zerg F/E to a main instead of too the natural and will rape everyone.
clan ia died though the forums is run by crazy people right now.
modified by sky
|that is true... but i dont think its that mucch of a problem cuz that means the oppenent should jus watch those expos alil bit more closely than usual. so i agree wit u but its not as imba as u suggest.|
|i also had plans for a 2-gas-main, thank you for realizing it before me D;|
i somehow like it, but i think terran over will own everything
|OUCH! Sexy :P But the worst thing is that minonlies behind the mainbase are not ok. They just don't fit the style of the map - game will take part in the centre because of this expos placement. These are terran expos.|
Anyway, the map is cute.
|OMG, Protoss tech is incredibly strong here.|
|sky, this map would be played mostly 1v1 anyway. its so they have random start locations mixing gameplay and making scouting more necessary.|
|so what race does it favor? we have someone saying it favors each terran, protoss and zerg.|
and I don't think the corner expos are that bad. if terran attacks those, they're going quite out of their way and are leaving themself open to attack.
|there are always some saying Tmap and Zmap. and alway some saying "antiTmap" and "antiZmap" and "antiPmap". as there are normally no "Pmap"-guys, you probably have done a good job.|
you cannot judge the influence of gameplay in theorycrafting. p got more HTs, zerg gas even earlier and in larger masses, T more tanks, and blbabkabka. just test it and GG.
|BGH ...ugh i am really hating this 2 gas wave of maps..|
|T>P via theorycraft. yes you can do it. more gas = more tanks, toss has nowhere to go, can't flank, T push virtually invincible and fast. need to open up the middle more. it's tighter than all kinds of maps considered too tight and too good for T>P.|
|the 2 gas mains will reward 1base play. |
the extra gas will only come in handy if the terran decides to do something like 3 or 4 factories off one base, because having a second gas in your main will only be useful until you get your nat, because the nat is a mineral only.
i think its a very interesting map
|T favoring vs P for sure, i agree with that. I think a tvz would be interesting, probably favors zerg a bit more..|
|well, much gas means a shitload of templars. t will actually need minerals to spent the gas on, P doesn't due to HT. and i think protoss - with maybe another main - will have so fast tech...|
|yes, i agree completely with the tech, but in a pvt if i get HTs i only get a few. I would get air and ups with gas instead.|
|made chokes smaller |
modified by boongee
|king of 8 plr maps|
|just move 1 gas somewhere else in your base so you will have to build command center there, zerg will be happy with that, and toss will have slower tech, or even better take that extra gas out and put it in those corner expos, that will make that erea more valuable.|
|btw, why not making a few p-maps with 2gas in main? there are quite a lot anti-P maps in certain MUs|
|I think 2 gas main should have been taken out. Now zerg is at a great disadvantage late game because they only have 3 places to expand for gas. All races except zerg are at a disadvantage early game. If games last longer than 15 minutes I predict zerg loses. The good thing with zerg for expos is to spread them out and get lots of gas. That is ugly for zerg players. |
modified by Holy)Sin(
|why is everyone saying protoss players were all whining, but none criticizes the terrans and zergs that always cry as well? maybe because there are T maps, Z maps, anti-T maps and anti-Z maps, but no P maps...except for 2-3 exceptions.|
|everybody is whining, when you listen to players, you should know this and be careful with the 'changing advices'|
|"except for exceptions"|
aw that was dumb
anyway I disagree with what you're saying, holy. I can't predict what will happen on this map much more than anyone else...but you guys have to realize
the two-gas main does not help zerg
everyone I've spoken to about this map says that zerg will rape with all the gas, but think about it. on LT or Luna, zerg fast expands and gets two gases right away anyway. there's no difference on this map since the natural is a min-only. two-gas mains actually disfavor zerg, since protoss and terran will be able to get 2 gases as early as zerg does, which doesn't really happen on any other map.
the only matchup I'm really concerned with is PvT, since the high-ground and short distances might be quite difficult for toss to deal with
|I think this map will be very hard for Zerg.The 2nd gas helps Terran vs Zerg a lot because he only has to defend his main base and has 2gas.The zerg will have to take another main to get 2additional gas but I don`t think that Zerg will be able to leave his main base against a good terran that builds up a containment.|
Protoss is able to build Reaver/Corsair easily as long as he is able to defend his main base.With 2 or 3 shuttles and 12corsairs he will rape Zerg.
I don`t know but the map doesn`t seem balanced at all. maybe that could be fixed by moving the gas away from the main building for 4 blocks.This way zerg is able to build a second hatchery and has an adventage.
At this stage I don`t think it is MotW worthy.
|A terran has not THAT much use for 2 early gas in tvz; no mins -> no rines. Just remember Nosta.|
More of a problem is the low number of gas expands. Terran will only have to check out 2 possible expansions in tvz; all the others are basically useless for zerg.
Well, I'd like to see some reps...
modified by spinesheath
modified by herb
|Yes, WTF ARE YOU DOING HERE?!|
|Terran map. And 2 gas mines? Wow. You love play BGH?|
modified by Cucdas
|Now, THIS is constructive...|
Can't we just ban them a little? TT
|I wouldn't mind|
Cucdas is a nerd
its in the script
|ok this map has easy to tank mains, fairly small mains especially for being so tankable. The path to the mineral onlys are incredibly tight and ergo way too easily defendable. That leaves the nats, which are standard, and a blank middle.|
OMFG double gas makes this map pro! Oh wait, no it doesn't. It doesn't make much of a diference except that someone who either loses their nat or doesn't feel like expoing has a chance. Now if you lose your nat early on you likely have already lost, and if you don't feel like expoing you are playing the wrong game.
Then there's the cliffs behind the nat and main with ramps leading up to them, both of which have been seen many times before, just this time both have it. Er amazing huh?
So that leaves those amazing crushed rock ramps. Er, even I can do that. And Syndrome did a nice job with such ramps in blue world (I think that's its name) already, so again, nothing new.
Terran can stay in their main and not worry about the nat because the nat has no gas. And when they want more minerals they can lift off a cc to that mineral only, and put a defense there. With that tight hallway only an air strike could be effective, but there's enough room for turrets or bunkers anyway.
So terran can turltle in their main and mineral only and take their nat too if they want easily. And they can use tanks to cliff every single resource in the game. Um WTF racial imbalance.
Let's look at zerg. The double gas means little. They can take their nat at the same time z always takes his nat, and get his second gas at the same time he always gets it. The double gas is wasted.
Once they get out of their nat there is nice room. Except that all paths lead here so true flanking is dificult unless enemy is a retard.
But that is not much of a problem, the middle is adequately open. It's just a matter of having every single one of their expos being cliffed that's the problem. A good opponent will not fight z head on. They will use the cliffs to win.
Protoss! Middle is too tight for pvt flanking imo. Double gas encourages late expoing, which is BAD. You should not encourage a race who seems to be struggling vs zerg, because z can easily expand and quickly, to not expand. That is counter productive. Staying in their mains and not expanding doesn't help really. It just means that if they get lurk contained they have the gas to crush it. Or the gas to just fly over it. The mineral onlys are unstopable in pvt; t's tanks will crush p coming (and if they don't have any tanks there they soon will, and p will lose its army from the other direction; and either way it doesn't matter, losing a small mineral only won't hurt too much in a t map.
Ok. I don't hate this map. It is fairly good, minus the racial imbalances. And it does combine several concepts used in other maps all in one. It is decorated as well as you can decorate a twilight map. But there is nothing truely special here, and the racial imbalances overweight the good in the map.
So why is it motw?
|stop bitching, the map is fine.|
|no it isnt at all...you just go for look before gameplay -_-|
|Who voted for this map? Obviously, the current voting is bugged, because if we took the results generated by it, Desert Flower wins. Nasty, you need to stop choosing the MotW yourself. Just stop the madness, stop the competition for a couple weeks till things get sorted out.|
|nopants, you are wrong. dont talk without knowledge.|
|Actually, if you count the people that have submitted maps (which would make them "real"), Azure Pasture had 5 votes while Desert Flower 6. Sorry to dissapoint, but one of Grig's maps won :/|
modified by NoPantsRepublic
|i counted all the quality votes. I am certainly not counting votes from voters that havent showed their quality as a voter.|
|Ahh, democracy at its finest|
|"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything"|
gg no re
|im certain u would do the same in my position.. u cant just accept everything; it would/could ruin the selection process and the quality of the MOTW. thats final.|
|tael vs purp.... suppose tael was T and he put tanks in the cliff between purp ans tael... but if its red vs purp then u cant put tanks on a cliff between each others base...|
|among other issues^^|
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