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Last update for (4)Happyguardianday : 2006, 11, 18 04:25
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1792 (4)Happyguardianday 128*128EffectHypnotize0.4beta

The map has been rated 62 times and got a total of 22 points
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Comments:   GMCS (2 elements)


EffectHypnotize
ok only the neutral buildings on the bottom show up as neutral in a game (meaning you can only kill the ones on the bottom half of the map; the other ones you can just walk through)

SOMEONE PLZ HELP ME!@! i think it is because i did the first half on a different version of scmdraft.. but idk. PLZ HELP! pm me for pass
Holy)Sin(
Well as for the xel naga temples (thats what they are right?) that are blocking the naturals. Remove them. It will play better without them. All it does is slow down zerg, so then a basic 2rax,2gate rush will probably work. I also think the neutral units with the minonly are wasted space.

As for the neutral units, I would just re-open it with whatever editor you are using and take all the neutral units out, then put them back, and see how it does.

I'm not too happy about the minonly location, it is just kind of in the middle.
EffectHypnotize
its not a min only if u look at it, the gas can be taken using that but you have to kill the other temple to get to the nat. ima take that stuff out tho even tho i was trying to use neutrals for the contest.
Holy)Sin(
Well neutrals are fine, but it looks like some neutrals were just used for the sake of being used. I see nothing wrong with the neutrals that are blocking the compost.
Antares
its because there are two types of sprites. the 'units' - that are just only graphics, and the 'unit sprites' - these are the real buildings that appear as a unit. you likely used the 'units' in the top positins
EffectHypnotize
k thx ill see what i can do
Nightmarjoo
The neutral buildings and the southern ramps are removed in staredit, huk.

Interesting map though, I like it.
lnept
vertical positions, tank range..
Holy)Sin(
I think instead of all the wasted space in the corner. Make a ramp leading up the the main blocked by a few neutral units, kinda like in Sin Pioneer map.
EffectHypnotize
i was actually thinking of doing that, it just looks like it would work. ill see what i can do about space etc.
Nightmarjoo
I uploaded a rep.
It was actually an ffa of comps with me observing (because I didn't have my internet so I watched comps) but the p got knocked out early on.

It's like 8 hours long, I watched an hour of it or so while doing my homework then went to bed and saved the rep when I woke. You need pp to watch it. You also might have to watch the rep in 1 player mode since I used cheats to observe the game.

The important things are: It shows some possible pathing issues with the neutral buildings (I noticed very few though, I don't think it is actually much of a problem, however that is with most of the neutrals being sprites). It also shows the lack of building space. Look at terran's base lmao.
EffectHypnotize
yea im gonna revamp it sometime..
EffectHypnotize
Alright i totally rethought out the layout on the sides and i came up with this. the expos below the nats can either be a 6 mineral min only and be relatively protected, or it can be an 8 mineral gas semi island expo.
your enemy can break through the neutral buildings though and you may have a very hard time defending it if you take it from the back.

destroyable neutrals also lead to a path that can lead to your opponents base or min only expo.

ill have to so some test games on it to find out problems
spinesheath
I see problems in tv? on horizontal positions... Imo you should simply add one bridge per player towards the middle or something like that, but the neutral building block is bad for pathing and makes pushes quite strong.
EffectHypnotize
ya im gonna get rid of that neutral between bases
Nightmarjoo
there's now a clear positional imbalance; the southern bases are much farther from their nats.

The mains looks pretty small still.

Happybirthday is gone! :O lol

You should make the area between the bases which is neutral something unpassable, because they would be too close otherwise imo.
EffectHypnotize
dont worry happy birthday will come back! im fixing this problem now...slowly.
EffectHypnotize
plz rephrase your last sentence also
EffectHypnotize
Once those neutral warp gates are destroyed, it will be very open imo. and things are much bigger in game than they look on the picture. the mains are a perfect size.

the outpost can only control the gas at those expos i think ><
Nightmarjoo
"ya im gonna get rid of that neutral between bases" if you take it out put a wall or something units won't try and go through to prevent them from going through. I think the horiz positions would be too close if that's open.
EffectHypnotize
if i put a wall there it will fuck up the distances, ill have to use doodadds and not have any holes. man neutrals are a bitch to use
nOia
check gmcs, the four bridges isnt in a regulalry shape
Antares
will you submit it to nightmarjoo's co?
Nightmarjoo
I imagine he will when it's finished. lol about the competition, should I rename it or something so people will make maps for it? So far two people have made maps and said they were for the competition, and the deadline is next tuesday. I will likely push it ahead because a competition of two maps isn't very conclusive :)
EffectHypnotize
yea i would move the deadline ahead like a week or so to let more people submit stuff. and yes im going to submit this when its done. the main reason ive been struggling is because i never remade the bridges. im going to totally redo it soon and it will be SLICK AS HELL!!
Nightmarjoo
oh noes!! In Soviet Russia bridge redoes you!!
RaDiX
u made it worse---
Antares
well it seems the minonly expos over the outpost is so sticky to defend or to fight, somehow not that good imo :(
spinesheath
BACK BACK BACK!!! Restore the last version with neutral buildings!!! ;)
Really, this is just plain boring. Something between Gaia and Luna, the earlier version was so much better TT
EffectHypnotize
yea i realized that i just strayed into a really boring version of a 4 player map. im gonna use a bunch of neutral shit and make it cool.
spinesheath
Of course neutral buildings don't make a map cool by default, just in case I sounded that way in my last post :p
But in your case, the map was better before ;)

Edit: ah, new version ;)
Not bad, I am not sure which version I like better...

You goon-murderer!!!
modified by spinesheath
EffectHypnotize
yea i wanted to do something different anyways with neutral buildings (for competition). i edited it and came up with what it is now. i think its better with more tactical positions. i may take out or modify the two min onlies though.
Nightmarjoo
perhaps put netruals between the side mineral onlys? The right mineral only path is a lot more open than the other, I this is a big positional imbalance. It would be a lot harder to attack the left one than the right =/

I like this version, I will test it if I can find someone who is both willing to test it and knows what a nat is ;)
EffectHypnotize
ill try to widen it up a bit or narrow the right a bit, ill have to see.
Nightmarjoo
SE's minerals don't appear in game.
EffectHypnotize
so blues main minerals?
Nightmarjoo
yup
boongee
HAPPY BIRTDAY
EffectHypnotize
fixed the mins @ SE
Nightmarjoo
looks good, replay time!
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