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Last update for (4)Avatar : 2009, 04, 19 22:47
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1907 (4)Avatar 128*128LostTampon1.7league

The map has been rated 62 times and got a total of 104 points
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Comments:   GMCS (2 elements)


LostTampon
new experimental map

needs some playtesting because i dont know how this will work out :)

hny
effecthypnotize
what do those disruption webs do?
LostTampon
they do what disruption webs normally do :p
tktkvroom
lol its good map no doupt, only thing I can spot is its really tight >,<
spinesheath
preplaced unit-sprite disruption webs I guess? Do those really stop you from attacking and stay forever? I never tried...
If so (and I expect you to have tested it), that's interesting... you can have an impenetrable wall against z/p in early game, moving the focus to the power gens.

Rest of the map is well executed, rather basic layout. I think terran has an advantage, though. The natural is rich and well defended (as the second entrance is impenetrable as mentioned before). Even after killing the power gens off, the choke there is pretty tight, I would widen it.
LostTampon
yep, i tried it out and it works fine, i think there are a lot of things you can do with webs (especially on 1on1 maps because of the max sprite limit)

also, you can use other things like dark swarm, there are surley a lot of things you can do with them :)

thx for advice, map is really tight
boongee
wow. I think you just introduced a new concept into the world of map making. Nice
boongee
anyway, the map itself is OK but it looks like you made this map and then threw on the disruption webs as a last minute thing. I'd like to see some interesting maps built entirely around disruption web or dark swarms.
spinesheath
I can imagine some nice uses for this, indeed. Paths that you can walk but not shoot from, or on the other hand paths that you can't shoot to...
You can also fit those things into wonderful design concepts. Like a swarm that is mostly surrounded by cliffs.
LostTampon
yeah, but you have to take care of not using too many sprites (250 max on a map - so if there are 4 players with e.g. valkyries, they wont shoot anymore)

updated now a bit:
widened chokes and made some small sideways with web
spinesheath
10-20 of these sprites use the same amount of sprites as 10-20 trees. So, the more webs, the less trees and you are fine. Should be no problem especially on tilesets like desert and twilight.
boongee
I thought doodads weren't sprites...?
trcc
LostTampon, your idea is very nice but I guess you have to get a GOOD map idea that would fit this concept to the perception, that it would possibly make it to progaming haha :P Isn't the site's first goal "global domination".. :P

If you let the map around here and koreans steal it and get credit for it, it would be a very SAD day `




HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!
modified by trcc
modified by trcc
boongee
trcc is right. WE MUST CLASSIFY THIS INFORMATION IMMEDIATELY
spinesheath
Yeah, happy new year :p

If you want to bring this map into progaming, make it 2 players, add 10 more DWebs at random places, as well as about 10 swarms at even more random places. Then add some crappy custom terrain and make it VERY macroish. There you are, the perfect pro map. No wait, add more neutral buildings!

@boongee: Well, some doodads have sprites, some have not. Everything you can stand behind like trees has a sprite.
LostTampon
hm, we could make a concept map competition, maybe someone has a nice idea how to use these dwebs/swarms...

hehe spinesheath, nice idea! :p

happy new year =)
modified by LostTampon
flothefreak
actually i thought those webs, as well as dark swarm, would vanish after a few seconds
PsychoTEMPlar
Do those really work in game? =S If so I have some big ideas :)
boongee
someone make sure they work, and then start a concept competition
spinesheath
LostT already said it works. Believe him or try it yourself.
LostTampon
yes they work :)
only thing is that you have to place them on entirely walkable terrain (else they cant be set ingame)
FateD
Is it just me or could that help a T player in pvt pushing massively?
I like the map itself but.. as a P player.. I don't think it makes it any balanced :o
PsychoTEMPlar
*Gets to work* KEKEKE
LGI
ZOMG
LostTampon
oh, back from vacation? ^^
decafchicken
"If you want to bring this map into progaming, make it 2 players, add 10 more DWebs at random places, as well as about 10 swarms at even more random places. Then add some crappy custom terrain and make it VERY macroish. There you are, the perfect pro map. No wait, add more neutral buildings!"

I hate how mapdori takes every single new discovery that comes up and multiplies it by 10 and bam its a pro map.

RoV with the ramps, Cultivation period with the buildings, etc etc
RaDiX
About the deco (which is good): I would make those big ramps down there to look same as the upper ones.. :P
flothefreak
RoV is very cool actually

korean mappers take those inventions times 10 because they dont wanna use it as strategical element (like we use single buildings) but to get attention. so cultivation is a map with 100 exclamation marks "LOOK HERE I AM A GENIUS LOOK WHAT I DISCOVERED"
LGI
Maybe you can make the choke whit the web more closer to the choke to the gas nat so it will be easyer to defend both of the entrances. Something like in Peaks of bakduu.

Also i would switch the natural buildings whith much stronger buldings. Like Xel Nagas or Zerg Overmind. Otherwise it seems prety hard to defend both entrances since they are both easy to get truogh.

JUST EDIT THE MAP SOONER SO I CAN PLAY, COUSE EVEN WHITOUT ALL THE NEW FENCY STAFF I WANT TO PLAY IT!
LGI
"10-20 of these sprites use the same amount of sprites as 10-20 trees. So, the more webs, the less trees and you are fine. Should be no problem especially on tilesets like desert and twilight."

Only trees? Or all doodads? OMG WHY I DIDN'T KNOW THIS BEFORE?! o_O

I have maps whit FORESTS... Couse i tought it's nice. Well it is nice, but if it effects gameplay i should replace them asap!
LostTampon
okay, edited now the map a bit:

- largened the outer chokes a bit
- moved main chokes
- replaced power generators with psi disruptors (800hp--> 2000hp)
- added more dwebs to the map (haha)
- opened mid a bit
decafchicken
those naturals scream T rapage
lnept
yea you should just cover the whole map in disruption webs, so its a straight up island map, no defense or ground units allowed, omgz
LostTampon
good idea inept, go and make such a map :p
Nightmarjoo
lmao LostTampon the winner is whoever sets up a basic unit contain on the top of the others' ramps =/

If p sets up zlots z can't kill with lings, nor with hydra; p can't kill lings there until ranged goons, t can kill stuff only if he has tanks and some sight of the top; p could use reavers if he could see the top =/
LGI
I also notice that it might be really hard to contain the center, once they are tanks there, but anyway i will check this.

LET THE MASS REPLAY FLOOD BEGIN!

P.S. This sunday it's time for UT 05 :)
spinesheath
Hmm, seems like a well placed army at both ramps to the middle was almost unbeatable. Unless you are terran and the other one is not, then you can chase him away, but it still won't be easy to get into the middle, since your opponent will charge in as soon as you try to cross the DWebs.
If there is no terran, I see a zeal/arch breakthrough as the best chance, but that's in vain if there are enough lurks. And of course storm. Does storm work from below a DWeb? I never had the the chance to try out yet :p
If you can't break the contain, drops are obviously the only choice. Your enemy might counter that with attacking with his containing units - and then you hopefully have placed some units well enough that your opponent can only attack you with high losses. The DWebs work both ways, obviously.

Well, the replays were... bad. Not you, LGI and PlaZma, but your opponents weren't on your level at all. They never seemed to have considered the second entrance :p
LGI
They played the map whitout even look at the map pic :) . Anyway i will play more and more this map in the server and sooner or later they will know it as they know Spirallianz :) .

Here is what i suggest.

DO NOT hide this map from the world, lets make it MotW, MotY w/e. Even if we still don't know balance or whatever the main goal is to write in to the newspost in bwm.n and gg.net

"HERE IS THE NEW DESCOVERY, THE FUTURE OF PRO GAMING LEAGUES" etc, etc, etc and staff like this. We must show those tactical elements to the world before mapdori. This way BWMN will aslo be boosted and more people might start come :) . I HOPE!

In the same time some of the mappers here might do a team work if they want, but their goal must be to use those tactical elements in to more standart and balance map to be sure that the next map will be the greatest.
LostTampon
thx again for reps, its very helpful to see a map in action :)
decafchicken
BWMN WORLD DOMINATION

Someone make a newspost about it at gg.net?
Nightmarjoo
mapdori will steal be quiet!!
spinesheath
mapdori would steal even if it was never played online and never posted here. Shouting is the only option!
flothefreak
mapdori is teh enemy.
LostTampon
lol, i just realized that you can build a pylon under a dweb against p or z for scouting in early game :P
spinesheath
You could also just put your scouting unit there.
LostTampon
true :p

edit:

small update

- added some more rocky terrain
- added more dweb stuff to island expos
- fixed gas issue @10
modified by LostTampon
flothefreak
do maelstroms, psis and nukes also stay forever? ;D

btw you inspired me to a map which also uses D-web. it was impossible to make before, now i give it a try
LostTampon
no, so far i have tested it is only possible to use "unit sprites" in scmdraft; only dark swarm and dweb are possible to use :/
if you use other things (sprite->effects) like psi storm or maelstrom, the game crashes :(
LGI
Obz version plz.
LostTampon
added (i hope it works :P )
LostTampon
another thing i have noticed with those dwebs and unit sprites: all air units seem to be behind those dwebs and swarms when they fly over them, thats not so pretty :/

+ sidenote: it is possible to cast spells in dwebs, and all air units can shoot
modified by LostTampon
LostTampon
oops wrong button :p
modified by LostTampon
Nightmarjoo
2007 w00t
modified by Nightmarjoo
Nightmarjoo
Added some reps, I really like this map.
FateD
This map is defenetly hella fun to play lol
I can't imagine how far the strat will go on this !! :D
LGI
I have to point out that your map is in the bulgarian BW sites as a newspost as a revolution map, and people are intrested a lot, so you are becoming more famus :P .

Some of the bulgarian players are even proud that they've played the map before gg.net relese :P

Guess what, they will become map testers for future :P
Nightmarjoo
lol that's cool LGI.
But honestly, the map is really nice :)
trcc
Yup looks very interresting ! I will go take a look at these replays :D

gj LostTampon
lnept
we played a 3 man ffa where i massed carriers, and an other one where i went 2 hatches before pool trying to block choke with ahtch but didnt work, but it wokred anyway since he 1 gated then i did mutas into hydras and won, so i havent really figured out this map yet so far. the neutral building/ disruption web is a VERY GOOD combo, i hope some1 will find other good combos
FateD
All bow before the great tampon!!! O_o lol gj :P
LGI
Heil!
LostTampon
loool ^^
btw, im not sure if the 2k hp buildings are enough for blocking, when i look to these replays i sometimes think they are too weak (espescially in zvp some lings can destroy them rather quickly...)
any thoughts?
modified by LostTampon
FateD
Well, I agree they can kill it quickly but.. Still, I think it's the best building to put there.. 5k would be rediculous lol and.. Idk if it was MY zvp uve seen, but some1 who fast expos usualy could get a cannon at it 1st.. so that woulc pretty much counter the zlings, or slow em down :O

I say it's good how it is :)
illskillz
LostTampon: you know that two cannons behind them do the job just fine, protecting from lings killing them easy
spinesheath
Making 2 cannons cost an additional 450 minerals if you are not FEing or teching anyways and need the pylon as well. The lings don't cost anything, you'd always have some.

Btw, 1 can is enough against lings unless it's a real mass of them. Still 300 minerals.
decafchicken
Posted this at tl.net, its getting a lot of good responses
LGI
Do we have any unbalanced things yet?
Nightmarjoo
lol who knows
NastyMarine
reps reps reps reps reps! :)
Nightmarjoo
lol zerg got trashed, just watched all the reps. I think zerg won a 9pool zvt and a 1hatch muta zvz and got raped every other game.
The players did not use the nat/backdoor to their advantage as well as they should have, and zerg did not grasp the concept of 3hatching lol.

I still think it's a great map, much more micro oriented than macro. Definitely worth its motw and moty awards ;)


I liked the pvz strat where he went 1gate->forge and placed a cannon near the dweb, unfortunately he was total noob and got raped, but I think it's a great pvz opening in this map; with 1cannon 2+ zlots you could expo safely, make a pylon and cannon at the neutrals to keep lings from getting in (no need for massed imo), then mass gates and tear through the neutrals for a wide opening for your army.
modified by Nightmarjoo
LostTampon
imo all players didnt use the dwebs to their full extent, none of them didnt realize that it is possible to hide scout units beneath it and some of them didnt block the path in the dweb with units to prevent the enemy from going through
but well, the more games are played on such maps the more strategies will evolve
Nightmarjoo
yes
Lancet
That is one of the things about dwebs that concerns me. I have seen even some pro-games where a careless zerg player has "woken up" to the fact that he has 2 gateways producing zealots at his choke or a row of photon cannons. A properly placed pylon in a dweb is unreachable by lings or drones and I am wondering if just merely having a dweb at the main's choke is not something that could automatically tilt the balance in favor of protoss at least in PvZ matchups..
LML
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LaO-Artanis
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Deathman101
Holy shit! easy on the sprites lol.
Nightmarjoo
Added a replay I obed. Wasn't very good but w/e^^
East Clan iM has added Avatar to their tournament mappool, so hopefully we should be getting more reps for it :D
Nightmarjoo
lol funny 2v2
LML
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ProTosS4EveR
That's what i thought, i rox.
Lancet
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LML
This post is not displayed due to its content
Nightmarjoo
This post is not displayed due to its content
LML
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Nightmarjoo
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Nightmarjoo
New iccup map.
ProTosS4EveR
isn't the time to update the inverted ramps??
Nightmarjoo
lol

they're good enough tt


  
1
Replays


--LGI, PlaZma vs GoingDown, EvilBeast(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs Mind_Control, sourcemag(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs Mind_Control, sourcemag(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs STI, MiGHtyTouCH(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs STI, MiGHtyTouCH(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs Marmorancheto, Stormfucker(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs Marmorancheto, Stormfucker(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs Stormfucker, DeskaPrinceska(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs Stormfucker, DeskaPrinceska(2on2, 1.14)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs MannerRune(1on1, 1.14p)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs ManneRedNaga (Fated)(1on1, 1.14p)
-- vs uC,BrooD(1on1, 1.14)
--uP)Palmolive vs USS.Buddha(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs n1.Vincent(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs (1on1, 1.14)
--inf.pike vs diement[gunz](1on1, 1.14)
-- vs frjt[fdd](1on1, 1.14)
-- vs hN)hasske(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs (, )
-- vs hN)hasske(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs SBy_SunG(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs sugoku[rise](1on1, 1.14)
--HoRRoR.T-ScT- vs fAke.Ferry.oO(1on1, 1.14p)
--fAke.localhost vs aFz.DIMAGA(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi ; GiTM.Yakuja vs aOn)Grand ; Bastardol(2on2, 1.14)
--MgZ)GohaN; MgZ)FabiaN vs iG.Target iG.Huntah(2on2, 1.14)
--MgZ)GohaN; MgZ)FabiaN vs MgZ)TroniC; MgZ)Ryko(2on2, 1.14)
--aO.Artemis vs iM-Krazy(1on1, 1.15)
--iM-Nightmarjoo;iM-Vegetta vs pepsi)lime;aO.Conflicted(2on2, 1.15)
--BWMN-LyrA vs GG-PetShopp(1on1, 1.15)

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