|Wow, very interesting concept here. Reminds me of Iron Curtain. Is pathing ok? 6 and 12 bases look a little too safe. Perhaps add another path through the cliff through twoards the high groudn expo's lowground path.|
|wow Good job vroom ^^|
|id make a tank cliff behind 6 and 12|
|sty_zerg didnt mention much bout the map :P |
ive been really busy working & haven't had much time to be on here, not like it matters cuz this site is dead.
But yea shit we made this map awhile ago like a few weeks after we made broken wings, i think the power gens are 10 stacked & the psi disp is 3 stacked. the min only against the wall in middle are stacked so its a high yield expansion
not sure of ne thing else just ask
|10 stacked o.O wtf xD i thought they were a single building :LD|
|lol sry 4 nor mentioning much :)|
But I like the idea of making the 12,6 bases tankable, but I have an idea of my own what about this..
Geting some bluestorm thing going like this:
Over hear :
Plz thel us + :)
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
but i hate troy gates
but that's just me.
|I would think about making the 3 and 9 expos minonly or the 12 and 6.|
I am a fan of troy gates tho :)
Cov yeah we thought the same thing about 2 much gas, that's why we lowered the gas of middle bases 12 and 6 to 3500.
Il double check if the troy gates work 100% fine and il check the other neutral buildings 2, to get u the exact amount of stacked buildings there are.
|It is a pitty that these type of maps are not made/played more often. The idea is to have the mains have 2 or more exits to 2 or more separate battlefields, such as in the map Monty Hall. I tried to make a map like this but with the battlefields different from each other in my map Janus. But Flash is a bit like the map Sound Barrier where parts of the central divide can be demolished except for the novelty of having the Troy passage in the center.|
I do have a suggestion. You should only have one power generator at the second main exit, 10 is just too much. And I don't think the Bluestorm passage is a good idea because you already have access through the sides. Otherwise I like the map a lot, very clever; congratulations.
If I were dictator of the Starcraft World I would force people to play these type of maps to make them to use their brains in different ways for a change.
modified by Lancet
|the top left and bottom right expos seem out of possion. they just sitting there not having anything to push back on like anyother expo.|
Ok I agree that there are 2 many stacked buildings, what do u guys think is the right amount?
And is the blue storm choke that bad?
If it is what about making those 12,6 expos tankable? Or both?
|the blue storm chock would ruin the whole purpose of the distance of that expo and would give you bout 10 seconds advantage. plus it could create paything issues scratch it will create pathing issues so i would say no|
|There should be only one power generator at the second exit and the blue storm choke is bad the way your map is because it makes the side access strips redundant. If you do put the choke what will you do with them?|
OK Up date!
-Made all neutral buildings 2 stacked. (except the Troy gates of course)
-Troy gate, buildings... all work fine
-Made the 12 and 6 bases tankable.
What do u think le boys?
|could you put a not to bright picture, it's kinda disturbing while looking at it >_>'|
okay, so I also like this map, and I am considering to put it into the Avaton mappool.
I think the bluestorm-like small entry to 12/6 is a pretty good idea, as it is pretty isolated from the rest of the map, currently.
seems like a pretty good map, and almost balanced.
yet, it seems that every expansion's eco is easily tankable? like at 3/9, tanks are able to hit probes from below the cliff? and the expos at 10/4 if the tanks are on the ramp?:o
I am ofc not 100% sure, but it rly looks like this and that makes it some kinda of imba.
|Kk this pic better?|
And yes i think it would be a great idea to put it in the Avaton mappool :]
Oh and I always had been a fan of the blue storm choke, il work on it.
The 10,4 expos might be tankable from the ramp, but as a toss ur supposed to defend that ramp and not let the terran get that far.But me and Tk decided to put the expo there 4 many reasons, not only considering the mach up T vs P, but also thinking about the zergs.I don't see how the positioning of those min lines of that expo can be imba, but plz correct me if im wrong, explaining why.
As to 3,9 we wanted it to be very harassable, but if u fined it to imba I can always flip it.
What do u guys think of the tankable 12,6 Im not sure if I like it, im considering if it stays or gos?
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
|that cliff overshadowing those 2 expoes is really strong lol|
So shall I remove it ?
|i think if the P goes some risky carrier strat, the T could attack all expansions with tanks, without ever in need to move up the ramp (3/9 is what I mainly mean here), which gives the P almost no security at all, cuz a pylon-block would always hold the tanks long enough that carriers might have a chance to appear there in time.|
Also in TvZ, the T can just move with some bio+tanks down there and shoot up, while Z couldn't do anything about it. Usualy Z has swarm+lurks up the cliff then, to have the chance to defend it then (and with some nydus for reinforcements).
That's just my input, it's ofc your map, and if you had your reasons for doing it this way, then that's ofc all fine (4/10 are ofc ok that way, just was to point out how every expansion is in easy range of tanks, but that expansion is so open anyways, so it wouldn't make any difference), and it's still suggested as an Avaton map (I let other people in the crew ofc also view the maps and they decide, too)
modified by LML
|sweet map on first glance|
-3 and 9 o clock expos suck because they're too easy to defend
-12 and 6 expos have such long routes to get to them. this is bad for gameplay because you can never send your army or decent parts of it to erase it, as you need so much time to travel.
blue storm hole would be great as you can at least slip small units through, like zealot/ht, zerglings, marines etc.
and whoever takes this expansion needs to secure that threat which adds dynamics.
-really reminds me of sound barrier^^
|seems nice, but what's that lonely mineral patch doing at 12?:d|
Ok removed the tankable areas at 12,6, I also gave more room to the 3,9 expos i think they are not tankable any + but il double check later.Also blue storm choke is now operational, and its working fine.
As to that min patch wtf, lol must have been a finger slip, il correct it later.
Oh and I haven't up dated the melee version yet, il do it in the next up date.
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
|Awesome map is fucking awesome. MOTM Plz.|
lol man, I'm glad u like it.
|plz plz plz get rid of b storm choke at expo it does no help for terran and toss, most of thier units cant get through but zergs can. I also sugjest making like a 2nd ramp on the gas expo closest to nat with like a min block on it to help break terran contain.|
modified by numbness
TvZ: rine medic firebat
those options alone make it a valuable tactical element. oh, and zerg only has hydras and lings which can come through.
modified by flothefreak
Yes man I have to agree with flothefreak on this one.
I also thought that the blue storm choke was a good idea from the start.
But I heard some dudes say they dident fined it a good idea.
I do how ever wana hear the arguments against the choke.
Shall we put it 2 a vote?
|just see it like this:|
without it: totally easy defendable expansion
with it: good to take it out while it's morphing, later on still the same as before, but at least not as imba as before
PvT: protoss can get in ht/zea/dt, T can always push with 2tanks+couple of vults, the big way.. np for T, they don't need a big army to take out an expansion
TvZ: marine/medic can get through, lings/hyds to take it down
ZvP: lings/hyds, defiler? idk, lots/ht/dt is pretty strong in PvZ to kill an expansion
|Yeah keep the choke, makes it more interesting.|
|I think that you guys are overstating the influence of the choke on the game. For example I think that that high ground next to the main and the expo with the choke will be more important. I think the choke here is redundant due to the side corridor, but whatever.|
Hey, I just downloaded your map and it is the version without the choke.
Ok should be the new version now in melee and obs, and got rid of the little accident.
I mentioned above that i hadn't updated the melee version, which is the one downloaded.
But its all good now.
|played some crappy games on it, vs a friend.|
Sadly it wasn't a good day for him and idk what he did, but he played trash>_>'
Nice man replays always appreciated and welcome.
What did u think of the map?
And i wonder were the hell is Tk ?
|yea, wanted to say this:|
I believe the backdoor should be stacked higher than twice, as you can see in the PvT, my DT rush was easily done (even though I believe T can repair those?), by goons already attacking the neutrals to the main.
Though, in PvZ with fe, Z could too easy do huge dmg to the P, and he couldnt even get a cannon up in time.
Hence: buildings with more HP, and more stack?
lol u and ur friend always cheese :)
I saw the reps.
Yeah I agree there has to be more stacked buildings, so i doubled it, there are now 4 stacked buildings.
Should be fine now, and yes Terran can repair them.
|the mainpoint is: there have to be enough stacked buildings that even if the Z attacks it with the maximum of zerglings that can attack this at once, the P can still build a pylon and a cannon behind it, even after not noticing it directly, or not starting to build pylon+cannon directly.|
Otherwise each Z can just go 12lings vs fe and GG
|What do u mean GG ?|
What is wrong with the map?
|okay, so, I am back on track (partly, still one busy schoolweek>_>'), and I want to host the tournament next weeks' friday, the 6th, November.|
Would be cool if you could also do some balancing tests on it, as I won't have too much time for that anymore, this week (or I would need to delay the tour for another week.. which I don't really want to, but would if neccessary).
As already mentioned by me above: either more, or stronger, buildings for the main.
|oh LML i thought you forgot about the tournament idea ^^|
|not at all:) just kinda busy atm>_>' since teachers are all dumb and all of them need to write their tests in the same week, so we got like 4+ tests/week ..|
Lol LML ik what u mean exam week really can suck.
Personally I have tested my map a couple of times lately and all appears fine, but il change map as soon as some one points out an imbalance, and il be glad to come up with an idea to fix the problem. (All with actual evidence and or a valid argument oc)
And Id love the map 2 be in the tourney, what imbalances do u or any 1 see so far that I should fix ?
|read my past posts, and you will see the only thing I am currently worrying about:o|
hints: main, buildings stacked, too few
|Sry LML 4 being a bit inactive the last couple of days, its just that I was suffering some technical difficulties (All should B ok now tho)|
But there u go I increased the number of stacked buildings in the mains, its now in 6 stacked, all should B jolly good now I think.
6 good ?
|I will see if 6 is good :o|
okay, set date for the tour shall be Friday, 13th of November (uh, Friday the 13th!).
This map will be taken into the mappool.
|design & execution are ok; even if i'm not a big fan of the middle - neutrals make grief mad :( . my only concern is that the map has too much gas; 6 x player is kinda much for this size ... think about; destination has the same size and only 5 x gas per player and it's considered a gosu macro map!|
modified by Grief_stricken
|Ur right about the gas situation, I thought about this 2, but which gas shall I remove ?|
|"destination has the same size and only 5 x gas per player and it's considered a gosu macro map!"|
yeah but destination is a wide opened macro map.. This one is tight micro map so it has to have even less expansions than destination ;d
modified by LasTCursE
Its not tight man, look at that middle...
True that the way to connect the 2 middles is by small chokes, but there are so many paths, including a ramp from ur main. :)
Still what gas should be removed ?
|i suggest 3 and 9 a'clock they seem with the less value to me|
|Way too tight and I don't like 'SPAM NEUTRAL BUILDING' OMG SPELLS EVERYWEHERERERERE MAPOZ|
|but it's still better than all of your maps frontliner ;) :d|
|maybe remove the gas from the expansion with the bluestorm choke? that way that expansion would loss even a bit more of it's importantness and easyness ;o|
at least Voidwalkers isnt T >>> rest
|I think i'm gonna stay quiet on this one ;d xD|
lol LasTCurse, and frontliner chill out man, its fine if u dislike the map, thats the cool thing about this site we all have different opinions.
Now about the gas issue, LML im not sure if taking the gas off the b choke expo is a good idea, because that expo is just so cooool, I mean, comon it has a B choke and a buildable bridge, id really like that, that expo keeps its importance. So im stuck with a cuple of other options:
a)Take gas off the 3, 9 as LasTCurse recommended.
b)Take the gas of the middle 12, 6 expos.
c)We cant really take the gas of the 5, 10 because that expo is the most important 1 once in the late game.So that cansels this option out.
d)We lower the normal gas amount of "5000" of "X" number of expos by "Y" amount.
^-------------- I really like option d, and then a.
So what do u guys think it should B ? Vote on it?
|actualy i was thinking of removing the whole expo at 3 and 9 xD but it's your map after all ;d |
i vote on D)
|You can't build comsat or nuke silo for CC at the 3 o clock expo, the one on the highground with small ramp.|
|just use your bridges and tiles ;p |
|Ok so thanks to the little bump X-Species gave 2 my map I decided that since it is a really good map (A MOTM), I really like it, and it has a lot of potential, but unfortunately It had a couple of errors and mistakes.|
I decided to invest about 2 hours in it and get an update 4 it!!!
SO UP DATE!!!
- First off I fixed the issue of the comsat that Jungle and Nightmarjoo mentioned in s a couple of comments. So it should be all good now.
- Moved the stacked power generators on one the mains ramps a bit closer to the high ground so that they cant be sniped from the low ground.
- I removed that expo that was after you power generator blocked ramp, because the map had way 2 many bases and minerals.
And instead I added a very cool looking bridge, just 2 add a bit of flavor 2 the map.
- I fixed several small mistakes around the map.
- Added some doodads and bit + deco 2 the middle.
- I decided to keep those min onlys that are with there back against the high ground in the middle, because although they are very hard 2 secure, and they are in the MIDDLE of the map, they are useful because this is a pretty macro heavy map due to its split in half map characteristic, so players out of desperation will take those expos, cause mining out is a very probable possibility.
But, I flipped the side in witch these expos where because it made a lot of since, specially game play wise because if they had remain in there previous positions they where way to easy to get and protect (Those 4 expos, specially 4 terran)
So thats it guys, I had a lot of fun editing this old map, so I have a proposition 4 u guys:
I have noticed that I have a couple of beta maps in my map pool, that have been forgotten... or that I have gotten lazy 2 finish since I have been busy with my new maps.
SO GIVE A BUMP WITH A COMMENT TO ANY OF THOSE THAT U LIKE AND I WILL EDIT, FIX, COMPLETE AND PIMP THEM OUT 4 U !!
SO DONT MISS OUT AND BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP!!!!!!
|It's looking really good now.|
Great job, leZerG :)
Map has been converted to SC2 by Meerel:
(2)Trapped Under Ice
modified by CardinalAllin
|Wow nice! my maps for sc2 great!|