|Thought that I should up load this due to the lack of comments and activeness on the site :)|
Maps is obviously still beta, no deco or doodads yet, would like some feed back first.
Kk so I give u my new map YELE!!
Things 2 know:
-The power generators are not staked.
-The Psi Disrupters are stacked 4 times.
You may think wow so many expos and 2 much minerals and gas, well:
All the bases that have red circles around them have 1000 minerals per patch, and 3400 per geyser (if they have 1)
ok here I go ''Post comment''
|its nice seeing creativity (which is getting better) but i do think its very easy to hold atleast two of those expansions|
not sure if middle is that tight but yea...so far i like it
|where do u build stff?|
|Glad u like it cov, but what do u mean by easy 2 hold?|
And Swagu, the mains are actually pretty spacious dude, look a bit closer or open the map and double check :)
|hey i wanted to make a map with "Waiting for panic"'s main formation not fair T_T |
but nice job on the map tho, looks rly cool:)
|Oh wow, this is really interesting.|
Might have some Battle Royale problems with the distances, though not having a natural would probably balance it out a bit.
Looks like a really low econ-style map. I like. I'm going to try and test it out.
|Glad u like it guys :)|
Yeah the idea was to make a weird low eco and high eco combination, look at the mains its almost like if you have ur main and nat from the start. It has 6 mineral patches per side, but only 1 geyser.
And neobowman, if you test it and get some nice replays make sure 2 up load them ;)
|Ok, the tests themselves weren't that good but we got some discussion about it.|
Terran needs more room to build in his base X_X. Maybe expand the mains so that only a bit of space seperates it from the rest of the map, or change it to a cliff.
Though the replays don't show it, Zerg might have a slight disadvantage ZvT. You can't go for an expansion since it's immedietely vulnurable and the short rush distances encourage 9 pool, but then all the Terran has to do is go like 9/10 rax and be safe from the rush. Then it's 1 base vs 1 base and Zerg can't do much. Need more testing to confirm.
ZvP is untested.
TvP seems fine. There's no big army clashes until later because of the low econ play and flanking is not a problem. Oh, and bio play could be strong here since it's hard to get a lot of dragoons and reavers/high templar out quickly.
And the other guy's not that good so nothing is for sure.
modified by neobowman
|kk thnx il see what I can do.|
And I presume that there is no path issue main 2 main right?
I haven't tested map yet, but I will 4 sure.
As 4 the zerg problem, if I was playing a z v t I would place my first hatchery in the space outside ur main bridge, and a bit near the ramp that way being able 2 place some sunkens and then with my 3rd hatch take an expo. Kinda like the way you would fast expand on that shity main base at 1 o'clock on LT. Also maybe get some fast tech and/or speed lings is an option 2.
Reminder ur main has 12 mineral patches so its almost like if you already have ur nat.
BTW thnx alot neobowman again. :)
|Lots of minerals help Terran and Protoss since they can produce workers non-stop. I think putting the hatchery at that location won't stop any attacks from other attacks since there's so many directions you can attack from. Think you have to go speedlings since you have so many extra minerals and no gas for tech, though that might not be bad at all.|
No a path issue at the main. There's a bit of a pathing issue at the back natural but it's not a big deal.
Not a problemo.
|Yeah you could also, sense you have a lot of minerals, get some hydra lurker combination. Of course a bit later in the game. |
- Added high platform around the mains (Giving + room to build for those mr.Terrans out there)
- Also moved the mains minerals, gas and start location 1 square closer to the edge (Once again to give + building space)
- I also moved the mineral onlys near the main 1 square closer the edge.
|my thought is that the min only next to the mains should be gas and the gas in the cornbers near the mains min onlys|
for zergs of course
|Thnx swagu thats actually a good idea, il do that in the next up date. Anything else be4 I ad deco?|
|Fix the obs version so we can test X_X. I had to make changes on my own last time. Make sure human players can change their races and that they aren't allied/alllied vis/allied victory.|
|lol yeah sry about that, here obs is fixed now.|
Also I did what swagu suggested.
(Didn't upload the pic tho)
|This is weird but, wow its cool. |
|if terran can hold the middle they got a buttload of resources but i cant think of any way to fix that. pretty much there is one way with the exception of the backdoor|
|Terran can't really play a macro game here. He'll have to sacrifice a lot of economy early game, either to defend against goons or to let goons cut half his mineral mining. You can't defend both the minerals and the choke with one tank.|
(Shit, I keep on imagining that this is SC2 balance we're talking about)
-Deco Is rdy 2 go.
-All the neutrals work
-Added a d-web in the middle.
Doodads haven't been added yet.
Well toss will also have problems if he fe fast (Vultures)
And remember this is not a macro heavy map. (Due to the harassablility and the distance)
BTW both's mains bridge can be sealed ling proof with 2 depos and 1 rax
|deco looks sweet! =]|
|Ok so personally I was not happy with the way the map looks. So I have 2 map options 4 u:|
|I think it flows better with the first. Second contrasts a bit too much, along with the ramps being not that good.|
|I like 2# more..|
modified by LasTCursE
|Yeah I kinda like 2 + myself.|
The ramps are not that bad, I admit they do look bad from the pic, but they are not bad looking in scmdraft of sc.
|LOL what a weird map. I like it.|
I reccomend enlarging the backdoor ramp adding a 20-stack of 0-value minerals next to the psi-disruptor hbr style. You could replace the psidisruptor with stacked protoss temples instead as well, they work pretty well in medusa/hbr.
I would remove the power generators.
I would remove the min only by the highground stuff.
I'd prefer #2 if you could make better ramps. If you can't, just go with #1.
I can see this being MOTM 3 if Testbug doesn't make a map (or maybe p4ver, etc). You have my axe.
|I personally like 2# a lot +, I think that option 1 is an overdose of the color gray. So Im going to do my best 2 get number 2# going. I am also convinced that from the picture u cant really "see" the ramps, so here are the ones I used:|
Normal 1 extended:
So are they really that bad?
Here is another option, this are from (2)Blitz:
Now personally I really like those and I wanted to use them, but the problem with those is that I will have 2 come up with an iver version of those (And im not sure its possible, haven't tried tho).
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
|This post is not displayed due to its content|
|I had seen some of those be4 in one of TK's maps, its certainly another option. |
Plz upload them It would be totally awesome, I love ramp maps they open so many possibilities.
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
- Doodads are up
- Deco is 100% done
-Removed the mineral only that Nightmarjoo mentioned.
- Made the black door 4 stacked neutrals and 20 stacked 0 mineral blocks, like Nightmarjoo mentioned
- And made the 2 corner expos normal mineral and gas amounts.
|Map looks awesome. I'm going to look for anyone who's interested in playing this.|
|Wow stylezergex each time I come here you have like 3 new maps, very good btw I really like this one, I have no complaints except maybe those inverts, but I guess you cant do to much about it eh ?|
|dude, do something for the building space in the main, do you play only zerg?|
and how do you defend with zerg? you can't even 3hatch
and how do you want to play versus tanks, everything is so tight
modified by ProTosS4EveR
|Inverted ramps might have vision and height problems, and is that terrain above them buildable?|
No I dont play only zerg, I actually also play T, my guess Is that u are judging map out of the picture, and you haven't actually opened it 2 take a closer view. But any way, mains are not small dude plz open with sc or editor and fined out 4 urself.
I was actually very careful with those, and I think I did a good job but feel free to open up and prove me wrong ( For I might have made a mistake, I'm human after all )
lol I have at least 5 comments of urs in different maps where u say this exact thing "awesome map" sometimes tho, you change it to "B-E-autiful" but its something along those lines, I think ur 2 lazy 2 write a real comment ^^
|Yes I've been making fun of nasty for years about that!|
|He just sees the potential in those maps and wants to encourage the creator to kepp up the good work.|
Or he wants the creator to believe that the map is perfect already and thus he becomes lazy and doesn't fix any issues at all.
Depends on how nasty he is I guess.
|Hey spines, you're still here? :D|
|Yeah hes been dropping comments from time 2 time :)|
So Is there no + ways to improve the map?
|GMCS doesn't work 0_o.|
I would replace the space that leads into the middle with neutral buildings. Uhh, it'd be easier to explain with GMCS. Like the portions where you walk around to go to the middle. Just to make it a bit wider without affecting pathing.
|Yeah wtf gmcs dont work, and I wish they did, because it sounds like ur idea is cool and might be interesting, but I totally dont understand what u mean, and where do u want the neutrals (And how its not going to affect pathing I really dont know)|
|sorry but i opened the map to check building space, you have to build so much near the edges|
|"So Is there no + ways to improve the map?"|
I know it's a ridiculous notion, but you could, you know, consider my earlier suggestions ~~
I have no intention of finding out new things wrong with it (I could in an instant) until the first things I said get considered/addressed, I mentioned them first because they jumped out at me first, if I try to do any more with the map I'll only get distracted by them and be of no use.
modified by Nightmarjoo
|Ok this is ur comment:|
"I reccomend enlarging the backdoor ramp adding a 20-stack of 0-value minerals next to the psi-disruptor hbr style. You could replace the psidisruptor with stacked protoss temples instead as well, they work pretty well in medusa/hbr.
I would remove the power generators.
I would remove the min only by the highground stuff.
I'd prefer #2 if you could make better ramps. If you can't, just go with #1. "
Ok I did add the stacked minerals, but did not change the psi disruptor's 2 temples because I want map 2 be as unclonish as possible, I also did remove the mineral only u mentioned.
So only things I'm missing are:
Enlarging the back door ramp and removing the power generators.
Ok I just want to ask whats the point of those? First what is wrong with that ramp size? Its not like that are is 2 tight, and If i enlarge it I think expo will be even harder to hold, consider that expo is already ver harassable and Its resources are not normal amount.
Second the neutral, this one I'm highly considering to remove, but is there another reason for its removal other than the path issue ?
|I think I meant the backdoor bridge leading to the min only from the nat. You've already got one tiny defensible choke that fucks up army pathing by being so narrow that players can easily scout, I don't think they need another.|
For the neutrals, I dunno why I didn't like them at the time (I'm sure I had a good reason though) but when I look now, it seems to me like instead of removing them, you should move them to the other side of that pit choke, leaving the currently blocked path open. My reasoning is, presumably those neutrals are there to make defending that expo slightly easier by removing one choke, but not tightening an already tight area for indefinitely. However, the currently blocked path is the path the defender player's units will take when heading to the nat to reinforce/defend it, or even just transferring workers. This pathing issue is not only horribly annoying, but I think does the opposite of what you intended. If that is what you intended, you are a sick sadistic bastard, and should change it anyway :(
My other thought now, looking at the actual gameplay instead of just the map conceptually, is that it will be hard for zerg. Terran shouldn't have much trouble FEing vs z as normal, but z lacks an easy 2nd gas to compete. Protoss should be fine doing 1base builds, relying on the extra minerals initially, which is how protoss sometimes plays maps like Outsider and Andromeda where there's a viable and safer min only to take as an expo. Except they don't have to nexus here, making them stronger than in those situations. I suggest adding a 2nd geyser to the mains, placed either at an optimum placement for a hatchery placed on the other side of the inward mineral line in the mains (where protoss and terran could concievably make a nexus/cc respectively and mine like a normal expo), or off to the other side of the main, possibly even against the main edge making it more harassable, and favouring zerg more as it would be expensive for t/p to drop a cc/nexus just for a single geyser. You can tweak this idea a lot, I'm just saying you need an easy 2nd gas for z, I don't care how you do it. But I think that placing it next to the sl will fit your original concept as well. Making it by the 2nd line of minerals makes it more "fair", but could possibly not help balance (p and t could still do what I described above, only with faster gas). Thus depending on your ideas, it might be best to throw it on the edge of the main, p and t CAN afford a nexus/cc if they want, since they get extra minerals for free in the main anyway, and it's easily harassable for all three races, which suggests it's better for both balance and gameplay.
You have two decoration holes now, in the one gas expo and where the min only used to be.
Also, I think the space in that region I just mentioned needs reallocated a bit. I think there's too much highground space there around the corner expos, and for no reason. It just means less useful paths/area for fighting/movement, and makes what should be the most defensible gas expo in the map (the corner itself, the lowground one albeit closer to the player is cliffed) less safe by being so open.
You might also consider moving the main bridge away from the middle, and moving the space boundary with it to enlarge the center slightly. If you're worried about main space, you can thin the outside wall of the main.
|And, using a feature that works isn't "cloning", it's part of making good maps. There's a reason they've been using temples and not psidisruptors, and unless you can actually explain why it's more beneficial to have a wall that comes down longer (but with a mineral gap that comes down at the same time) or test that it works the way you want, I don't see why you should leave it as is, although I suppose it's not a big deal either way.|
|lol marjoo thnx 4 the large essay comment, :)|
Il get to work on it!
If there are any other suggestions, this is your chance, while I'm at it.
(lol I'l probably have 2 reed ur comment a few times so that I understand all of it :)
|Since this seems like a 1 base map, adding a second geiser in main would help zergs quite a bit as securing a second expansion would be hell (atleast in my view) |
EDIT: This map really got me excited for 1 base gameplay, might make a map aswell :D
modified by Kinosjourney
- Added a second gas to mains (I did not place it somewhere else in main because It took away precious building space)
- Mad mains bit bigger (The way Nightmarjoo recommended)
- Enlarged the back door bridge.
- Moved the power generators. They are stacked twice each (like in tears of the moon) now it might be able 2 12 hatch like in the unsymmetrical LT base (I will test in games 2 make sure)
- Fixed little problems in map
- All neutrals are working how they should (Ling tight and dont crash game)
- In the newly enlarged bridge, the value of stacked minerals has changed to 11, and the psidisruptors are 4 stacked, but there is something special to these block. If you only remove the stacked minerals only small and some medium size units will be able 2 go through (Like in blue storm) But if u remove the psidisruptor's all units can go trough.
- I also messed around with the elevated catwalk.
- Fixed the deco holes
- Finally, tested all the inverted ramps, and they are now working according to planed.
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
|"Enlarged the back door bridge"|
I meant the other one, specifically said "between min only and nat"
I must've forgot (I can't find where I wrote it if I did) to write out something else I wanted, to reduce the value of one or more mineral blocks on the mineral line between the main and the nat so that units could go from the main to the nat more easily (and fixing transfer-pathing issues).
Another thing I guess I forgot to say, with the 2nd gas in the main right next to the sl, I reccomend lowering the value. You could either set it to something between 1000-2000 or make it and the nat geyser 2500 (or really any kind of gas value tweaking, I suppose the way it is now is fine, just want you to consider what numbers you want).
"Moved the power generators. They are stacked twice each (like in tears of the moon) now it might be able 2 12 hatch like in the unsymmetrical LT base"
I take it you didn't like the idea of moving the main bridge? Why not?
I know you really like bridges, but consider making non-bridge chokes that players can block off easily and/or adding doodads/terrain to facilitate the walling-off of chokes.
What about putting dwebs on bridges/chokes?
|0oOk another UP date!|
- Added 6 d-webs, on a couple of map chokes (Good idea Majoo I liked the idea)
- Adeed 2 mineral blocks in the mains, on the side that leads to the nat. The furthest away has 320, and the other one has 740.
- Removed the bridge that was between the nat and the min only.
- Added 2 power generators per side(They are not stacked), like neobowman suggested.
- Added some solar array deco, to give the map some visual flow.
- Also in the Obs version the 2 players get a reviled preview of the map so that they know whats going on. (Of course not all map, all safe for the main base so that race can remain hidden)
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
|Why not dweb the nat bridge?|
|Ok So I decided to post this map (2)Yele, in Team Liquid, and I got a lot of positive feed back, but I also got a very interesting suggestion from a guy called "CharlieMurphy"|
Il let him do the talking:
"The map definitely has some nice concepts and very good design. However I think it's too much and I don't like the layout of bases nor do I like the double main base thing.
It feels like the middle of the map has too much control over too many bases from the low ground.
And even though I love bloodbath, I think the distance between the mains is way too short for a pro style map.
There isn't much map movement. If a player wants to expand safely he is most likely going to take the bases behind his main which means the only terrain really needed to defend is the middle area once again (and ofc his bases minimally).
So it's almost like the whole catwalk areas are totally useless.
Also, in this map you're pretty much lowering the chance of comebacks or back and forth battling imo. Since the players will be taking the 'safer' bases near their own base, if one falls the rest will all surely fall at the same time as well (since they will all be sharing the same area and defenses).
changes i would make:
|If u cant reed what it says is green, il post it for u:|
"(top)Switch these bases min against the wall"
"(bottom)Move main openings to the opposite side of the base.
Possibly add mia block/destructible opening in its place."
I'm highly considering doing this edits, but a lot of the map would change, so I want to know what u guys think of these changes ?
Here is link to map forum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=115676
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
|It's fine as it is IMO, im glad you moved the power generators :)|
|Kind of ruins the concept for me imo. But it could help balance and if that's what you want, go ahead.|
|I could always make a Yele II ?|
|i do agree that the rush distances are very short but i wouldnt suggest putting the bridges there. imo it makes the game really hard for toss in pvt|
|Changes that dramatic are not edits, they are remakes. You'll have a different map then. If you're considering his changes, consider remaking the map from scratch, because you'll be busy making 3450934509345 minor edits on the map to fix and adjust it to fit each of your edits. You'll either end up with a different map, or an incomplete inferior map.|
Charliemurphy is a bwm poster, or was, aka Spor.
|Ur right marjoo that was the inner debate I was having (The other side of the coin), Il possibly endup doing a Yele II, maybe even on a different title set.|
Any suggestions ?
|Maybe consider a bluestorm path where the current main entrance is, if you're keeping the double resource main.|
|Wow cool idea man, sure thing! That sound awesome.|