|It has been a long time since I've made a 2 player map, so any comments on this one will be appreciated. I still need to add some decoration, and fix the unbuildable area in the top-middle section.|
Some things about the map:
- The ramp near the choke is smaller than usual. Terran can wall-in perfectly from both entrances (ramp and nat-expo) with rax and 2 depots.
- Zerg can build his first hatch at his expo and defend both entrances also, since the creep can reach the small ramp.
|Nice map. Check GMCS. And be sure every time when you make smaller ramps to check if ultras are going trough there without any problems.|
|can marines shoot gas/mins of the natural from below? even if not - the first tank in TvZ will kick ass :<|
|Yeah, but if he is there look how clear and fast a zerg can attack the terran when he is trying to shoot zergs expand. I've used the same idea on (2)Osom. You can call it if you want "a trap" for terrans.|
|Ultralisks can pass through the ramps easily, so theres no problem there :)|
The only reason I put 10 minerals on the bottom-middle expansion is cause it looks nice :P
If they are too much I can always modify some of the patches to 300 minerals.
|The problem isn't in the nomber of mineral blocks. I say that they need better arrangment. Do it like the standart way, so there won't be any problems with workers AI.|
|i'm predicting motw. great job / style|
|well LGI, it is again about the zvt earlygamestyle: |
for you, unitonly (or very few sunkens but many lings) work for you- but on top pro level, and thus with most of all players, a masssunkendefence-style has been established as best way (or only most common way?) to play ZvT in early. and don't forget lings suck against proper microed scv/rine forces.
so this won't work in ZvT with that shootable expos i guess. i dont know that MU too well from playing myself, but speaking with the knowledge of many many TvZ proreplays, i can back this statement up.
so still, if unitonly works here - which could be due to the open area down there - it will scare of Zergplayers. as the map can't be changed completely, i would at least make gas/mindrones unshootable for marines, so T has to wait for tank(s)
what if you are - at this moment of the game - not strong enough to throw terran back? it was YOU who complained about shootable mainbases/gases because it would be so unfair cuz you wouldn't have any chance of defending then.
so actually a little mistake can give your game away, because terran can immediately take the favor of the shootable natural...
|this is not as dangerous though flo. yours was rusty pit to low ground, this is low ground to high ground a much bigger difference.they would have to scan to see the expo, but on trench warfare, you didnt so it was dangerous.|
this map is bad for tvz though, they can just go around and run up your main...this is a must for zvt that is why most backdoor maps and expo not guarding main maps dont work.
|Inept you mean hard for zerg or hard for terran?|
If the marine/tank range is a problem for ZvT I can always add some water beneath the nat expos so that tanks are the only units that can reach the mineral line.
I'd like to see some ZvT replays on this map to see how much a problem that backdoor ramp is.
|well its a problem on any map dont need replay. Watch the marines and medics go around your sunken defense and stim into your main :/|
|Well if its so bad then why is Avalon MOTW? And the backdoor entrance is even larger than this map.|
And as I said, Zerg can defend their backdoor since the creep reaches the small ramp. So I don't think rushing in someones main will be that easy.
|but it takes time for the creep to get there|
|If you add a sunken colony the moment your hatchery is complete, within the next minute you can add sunkens to your small ramp.|
And dont forget you can always 3-hatch against Terran.
|and always remember then while you can choose to defend your main they can hit your nat just as well from the normal side, either way its going to take too many sunkens. |
|We cant be sure about anything until we test it ZvT. Dont forget the ramp is smaller than usuall and it wont be easy for Terran to attack it.|
|what ramp is smaller then usual i dont understand.|
|The backdoor ramp next to the choke has been edited and is smaller than normal.|
|oic, acuatelly i might have an idea. move the backdoor ramps 1 tilset closer to expo and it could be defendable.|
|I've just updated the map, the minerals at the nat expos can only be hit by tanks. Also the area beneath the nats is more closed.|
|Fine map. And dont worry too much about zerg, they are strong enough anyway:D|
|Flo, are you talking about Chaos_Factory? Because there terran can attack your main from the outside, not your expand, and this is a huge diffrence.|
|dont start again with floatfreak, too...|
if you lose your main or your nat, it doesnt throw you back equally, but puts you into a VERY bad state. it is very unlikely to get a grip on that game then.
|Flo = floathfreak?! Stop taking drugs pls...|
And you are a bad theorycrafter...
|Well just think about these maps: Plains To Hill, Martian Cross, Xeno Sky, Namja Iyagi, etc...|
They all have siegable mains and/or expos, so I dont think the natural expansion is such a big problem.
If anyone wants to maptest it today come to the european server, my name is NameTaken[SomE].
|lgi, i was directed to chaos "factory". you seem to like change up my or my map's names ~~|
i didnt say it is imbalanced, but i could truly imagine it to be unbalanced on a higher level.
why else are pros going for mass sunkens instead of masslings? because it is weaker?
When i am making mistakes like this, just say "No comment... It's a bulgarian." :)
|Around 10 games have been played on here so far so I've uploaded some good ones.|
I'm thinking of changing the minerals from 9-7 (main-expo) to 8-8 or even 8-7 so ZvT will be a bit more balanced. The nat being sieged from the area below isn't that much of a problem since you can flank the tanks from both sides.
I've been told that the natural expansion is a bit too narrow and should be more open and easier to attack, even though it has the backdoor ramp. Some feedback on this plz.
|this map looks nice according to the picture,|
i think this map might be motm material
|The map has been updated. The mains have 8 mineral patches instead of 9, and the expos have a little more room.|
|Map has been edited for NastyMarine's competition. I've changed many things, such as:|
- The top part of the map now has 1 gas expo for each player instead of just 1 gas expo in the middle. It is also wider for more battles.
- Nat expos have been pushed closer to the backdoor ramp so that Zerg can defend it easier in ZvT.
- Added bridges to the bottom corner gas expos.
- Added high ground behind each main.
- Fixed minor stuff and decoration.
I was thinking of adding another ramp on the other side of the high ground behind the mains so it can be easy to attack if someone controls the other players cliff. Some comments on the map please.
|hmm the middle seems a bit crowded with those expos... u may want to delete them?|
the nat looks very uncomfortable unfortunately. move the minerals and gas away from the edge abit so that a turret or cannon can be placed to gaurd that resources.
other than that, it looks great.