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Last update for (2)Mother Love : 2008, 02, 14 23:55
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1361 (2)Mother Love 128*128NastyMarine0.5final

The map has been rated 44 times and got a total of 21 points
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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (2 elements)


NastyMarine
The map ideas were calling and I had to make a new map! The map isnt perfectly mirrored but im kinda tired so ill make the changes later..

comments and suggestions appreciated
lnept
good expansion layout, dont like the mineral blocked cliff/island combo thing.
NastyMarine
also:
At the nat there is one mineral that is 250, one that is 500, and the rest are 2000 so there can be more space made to defend the mineral line.
Arden(WoF)
Why not? I think it adds really interesting dropping. Like I said before, this map looks really awesome. I really can't find any mistake or problems.
AiurZ
terran drops the cliff and shreds 3 expansions and gets free shots at units exiting the main.
epidiOn
Wow... that's a pretty sweet map, I like it a lot. Some new stuff goin' on.
king of 8 plr maps
marine your on fire now with your maps.
good job on this one, nice to see your mixing up your minerals.
NastyMarine
ROFL!! King u crack me up man.. but i do appreciate ur comment.

Aiurz, the cliff isnt that bad.. but i do see ur point.. tho i must point out that the middle is very open and imo it compensates for the cliffs
flothefreak
quite large distance for PvZ :[
and it seems to be impossible to get a 2nd expo

i fear although the map looks good, it won't be as good to play on...similar to beloved land
epidiOn
Maybe delete the 2nd nat (min only) and then put it in the little cove next to the mains so you can get a 2nd nat more easily. Check GMCS.
NastyMarine
To Epidion:
if i delete those min onlies and move them to the 'coves' then the map will have nothing to fight for in the mid.. and its huge already. in the earlier beta stages for this map, it had a min only there in the cove but there were problems fitting it in successfully and i really wanted wide bridges to access the outer expos so it jus didnt work..

To Flo:
"i fear although the map looks good, it won't be as good to play on...similar to beloved land"

And similar to Beloved Land, no one here has the patience or the decency to at least try out maps here in this site. And to further comment on BL, it actually has has lots of good feedback considering some of the FEW negative responses here.

how about we go to the reps?
modified by NastyMarine
lnept
because everyone i ask to play says "your skill level is higher therefore i cant help you test" so not my problem.
NastyMarine
thats not an excuse for any1 that doesnt play vs u. Kinda silly that ppl wont test maps cause if they feel they'll lose..
MillenniumArmy
Cool map
modified by MillenniumArmy
lnept
lol nasty upload our rep rofl^^
NastyMarine
haha i didnt have pplug on wen we played.. do u have it?
NastyMarine
hmm.. on a newer tvp rep.. there was AI movement confusion at the main bridge.. ill upload the rep.. i take the bridge and set up a d.. but some units wuldnt pass thru the bridge.. and they wuld kinda pace back and forth.. it was annoying.. check the third rep.. ill describe it on the description of the rep
NastyMarine
nvm i fixed the problem
NastyMarine
updated map and added some more deco

upgraded map to final
NastyMarine
added obs
Valkyrion
follow the suggestion in gmcs, i think that improved a little, in better the map
Arden(WoF)
Oh right, I forgot that I was supposed to do the obs, sry nasty =/
NastyMarine
lol its ok
Listoric
Imo, the 3in1 cliff is just too much. Terran "just" has to gain one spot ot own 3 bases. Sure, its easier to defend when you know hes is heading for that goal, still it destroys gameplay a bit.

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

how about that?

I moved the mineral a bit to stop a tank from shooting up the natural by driving back there, removed the cliff at the natural. Think about it.

Edit: The map itself is a blast. I love the layout, i like the river feeling in the center. i like the min only that almost can be walled to secure it from one side, really cool.
modified by Listoric
NastyMarine
new good pvp reps added
NastyMarine
@Lis
well i was thinking and i talked wit some ppl that have played the map and they sed that maybe 'breaking up' the high ground will help it out alil.. but with the current games being played i really dont see alot of T's abusing the cliffs.

more reps will help the issue but time will tell.. but on another note. The middle is gigantic and makes up for cliffing abusers.. in tvp (where the most concern is) p can go all in if a t abuses all three expos.. and another thing that a few have sed is: "well its nothing that isnt adaptable" and i think and hope that this will happen..

tomorrow ill have pvz and tvp reps to concentrate on the cliffs and see if the center is too open for flanking favoring match ups :)
Listoric
Yeah, but just take a good T drop as an example.

How does a Protoss defends against a drop on lost temple? He scouts the cliff, he drops units, like goons, zealots, DTs or HTs. ok, fine.

Now take your cliff at it is now.

If i am a terran, i'd simply not drop at the spot directly above the minerals, simply because i can deal the same damage if i drop at the other highground parts while having the chance to outmaneuver a counter with walking away, and even dropping my units down to the expansions while the protoss has it's units on the highground, as soon as he moves down, you simply drop on the highground again, and again and again. Not a big deal.

Then, imagine a protoss actually taking the gas expansion in that "crater". Terran can easily push up to that highground, and kicking the min-only after there is just a small path to cover and the crater expansion with easy again, covered from above and below.

No question about the fact that protoss can defend that with good scouting and a nice counterattack. Still it just needs a small part of the terrans army to keep you totally busy in that case, which means that a T at the same skillevel can play you out easily.

At least that's what i think. If you'd change it to what i propose, and make the minonly untankable from behind, you'd have better chances as a P. btw, clifflurks might be a pain in the ass in ZvP here, maybe get a space behind minerals to allow P to protect minerals with canons.
NastyMarine
"At the nat there is one mineral that is 250, one that is 500, and the rest are 2000 so there can be more space made to defend the mineral line."

(explanation for defence at the nat)

I imagine that any race that takes that crator will D-up the high ground around it at least alittle bit so that their opponent will at least think twice about dropping. imo

i never got those reps yet.. hopefully ill round up the crew today and have more reps
NastyMarine
Updated Map:

Fixed inverted ramps to be a bit longer and to almost (if not) perfect width.

added doodads on cliffs to prevent easy access to min only cliif and nat cliff etc..

added critters :)
NastyMarine
UPDATE:

imo i think i balanced out those cliffs now. I cut off passage from the cliff from nat to min only. I added 3 min blocks (5mins each) so its harder to access the nat cliff. It can also, no longer have a tank reach the mineral line from beyond the mineral blocks.
NastyMarine
I'm really thinking about removing the cliffs behind the min onlies near the center of the map.. It will end up balancing it (I suppose it wont be T > all if he/she goes to destroy nat and min only). I just would like some more suggestions.
Frank-Terrorist
I think T in TvP here would just turtle, expand to the crater, and then with his 3rd gas, just own the toss with drops.
NastyMarine
idk if its that simple, but yes that would be a good strategy for a T player.
spinesheath
Well, you could take an island and your nat on lt and are still not able to just own your enemy. And that island is not any harder to defend than the "crater".
NastyMarine
i've made up my mind about fixing the cliff at the min only .. im going to make it uncliffable and have it a bunch of highground walls but still taking up the same space..

those changes will be done by friday

another idea:

should i connect the main and the passage to the crater? that would put the mineral blocks into better use and the crater expo in more use for the other 2 races. I think it isnt a bad idea, tho it may just cause mass turtling for T.. what do u all think?
Frank-Terrorist
What I meant with my previous comment (sorry for not really elaborating) was that this map is pretty open, and T is gonna have trouble taking the min-only... so I'd expect in most TvP games, T would want to take the crater first. Probably it isn't too much of a balancing issue, since T has all the dropping power, but I mean... you've got a big open space outside each player's nat; bigger than the mains!

TvP will be... interesting on this. I really don't know who has the bigger advantage.

I'm not sure if this is necessary, but have you considered addding one of those single min clusters in the craters so that T can't float a CC in there to expand?

I think fixing the cliff will make this map almost perfect. I wouldn't recommend connecting the main to the crater... that would give T a third gas way too easily. What you've done so far with the cliff makes the map interesting... don't mess with that.
NastyMarine
UPDATE:

The min onlies (2nd nats) cannot be cliffed anymore

The nat's cliffs does not have mineral blocks anymore

Put more space in the 'crater' expos
NastyMarine
i did not update the picture since my resizing program slows down the cpu too much.. other than the changes mentioned above, the map is the same.
modified by NastyMarine
spinesheath
What program do you use and what's it with your cpu that it can't handle this?
NastyMarine
HP Deluxe or HP "something"

for some reason it loads reallllllllllllllllly slow and then slows down my computer.
spinesheath
Get something else :p
I am using "the Gimp", it's open source and available for about every OS :D
I think others suggest Irfanview. I never had it on my comp, though ;)
NastyMarine
Infran View is gosu, i have it on my main cpu where i make my maps, its just i dont want to dl lots of stuff atm and im lazy :)
5pool
hm, i just came across this map, and i realy like it. one of the few i'll actually download.

i have one question though: can i use it (maybe, depends) for my tournament?
spinesheath
If you collect the replays? :P Well, I'm not NastyMarine :P
5pool
lol, all the reps of the tourney get saved. if he wants, ill upload them here too by that time.

ps. im also looking for other possible maps ;) ;) ;)
Antares
i think everybody allow to play on his map especially if you provide him with replays, its a great feeling when your map get into a tourney-mappool :)
5pool
=) im just used to asking before i do such things :P and there's still more time ;)
NastyMarine
yes i already replied, .. and its yes if u didnt recieve the message :0

and yea, please provide reps :)
Nightmarjoo
I uploaded some reps from the op wiznest tourney. btw gun-notforufake was p in both ones, I put him as t in one =/
I ommitted the replays from the final round cuz pink[cmoi] just raped me in those.
I ommited the first replay of round two vs mac11 because it was a terrible game.

Ok after playing the map, I don't like it. It's waaaaaay too open, and everything is sooooooo far away. Cheese is easy on this map because of distance. The map just had a bad feel to it, so much open space. And I don't care much for those mineral formations.
NastyMarine
I think I'm going to redo this map. Sexify it :D
Nightmarjoo
gl lol
tlos)frontliner
Nice map dude :)
Replays


--NastyMarine vs l[x]l-fiend(1on1, 1.13)
--NastyMarine vs l[x]l-fiend(1on1, 1.13)
--NastyMarine vs l[x]l-fiend(1on1, 1.13)
--NastyMarine vs l[x]l-faroo(1on1, 1.13)
--l[w]l-mac10 vs l[w]l-ehkz(1on1, 1.13)
--l[w]l-mac10 vs l[w]l-Newline(1on1, 1.13)
--l[w]l-mac10 vs l[w]l-Newline(1on1, 1.13)
--lnept vs l[w]l-ehkz(1on1, 1.13)
--lnept vs l[w]l-ehkz(1on1, 1.13)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs GuN-notforufake(1on1, 1.14p)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs gun-notforufake(1on1, 1.14p)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs l[w]l-Mac11(1on1, 1.14p)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs l[w]l-Mac11(1on1, 1.14p)

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