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Last update for (2)Artemis 1.02 : 2006, 08, 20 12:30
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1538 (2)Artemis 1.02 128*96Frank-Terrorist0.2beta

The map has been rated 27 times and got a total of 5 points
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Comments:   GMCS (2 elements)


Frank-Terrorist
Hi, this is my first upload to this site, but I've been making maps for a while. There are a couple of neat ideas in this one.

- Pathfinding & tank distances have all been checked. Workers use the correct path when scouting the other base; units don't get caught in nat when retreating, etc.

- Easy min exp on cliff. Kinda like Bifrost or Roads to Antiga Prime. The difference here is that the mins form a wall... on the other side of the wall is a passageway leading to the other player's cliff. So like on Bifrost, there could be cheese-attacks with cannons/bunks on cliffs, but the attacker has to go through a lot more trouble to do so, because of the min wall. Also, it's pretty much impossible to get a large number of units up there without a drop or some kind of proxy build.

- The upper cliff can be accessed by mining 4 clusters, each with one min, located near the top centre of the map. So in mid-game, a player of any race could attack up here with some chance of success.

- Nat mins form a wall. Terran can block things off with 1 rax, but a toss can pylon-cheat his way in for scouting purposes. The nat is a little more open than Luna, but less than Rush Hour. A player could even try to mine the nat from the upper side, but then they wouldn't be able to get the gas. The "back door" into the nat, which consists of a longer path around the outside, can be sealed off with 1 depot or pylon.

- Middle mostly open, with some doodads. The rest of the exps are closer to the centre.
modified by Frank-Terrorist
Antares
i like how you do it! style is good
also seems very nice but i have some problems

i think terran could turtle and take expansions very easy here, i wouldnt say the map is open, the passages are not the widest and also choke is very easy to defend..

i also fear that terran could make the biggest advantage from the alter route to the backdoor

so matches versus terran opponent will not be the easiest here i guess :(
modified by Antares
spinesheath
Pathing tested? I guess the backdoor is the shortest connection of the 2 mainbases. I also suspect pathing problems when you for example are massively dropped in your mainbase and try to bring your army from the center to your main. Your units will get stuck in your natural.
SynDrome
I told you frank-terrorist, terran is strong. you can get my modified version wich has less minerals on the gas expos, it prevents terran from over-turtling and over gassing.

keep up the good work tho.
modified by SynDrome
Frank-Terrorist
All the pathing is tested and works fine. I've never had guys to up on the cliff when I tell them to go to the other main. When retreating into the main, guys will only get stuck if there are buildings in the way... the CC is far to the side of where units need to go to retreat into the main, so unless there are a bunch of cannons or gateways in the way, there shouldn't be any problem.

SynDrome, I did kill the gas in the bottom-left and bottom-right bases since the last version you saw. Maybe you didn't realize this!

The nat has 2 entrances... they are close enough together so that a zerg fast-expanding won't have to put sunkens all over the place like in rush hour... however, I don't think it's any more or less defendable than a standard nat in most maps.

I spoke with Capn.Nemo who argued that P would rape T on this map, because the middle is quite open. Say T takes the lower middle expansion with gas. There are now 4 ways into his base... over the bridge, around the outside through the bottom left/bottom right expo, through the middle above the wall, or though the middle below the wall. The expos in the centre are even tougher to defend, since they can be attacked from 2 or 3 directions.

I did add a few more doodads in the centre since then, but I still don't think this map is too T-friendly.
Nightmarjoo
I don't think it's too t friendly
spinesheath
A Terran would take his nat, then his backdoor (or the other way round if he feels unsafe), and by that time he will have a good army at his hands. He will block the small entrance to his nat, 2 tanks 1 depot really is enough for this, and then take his 3rd gas. It's even easier to defend than a minonly on lt, and a terran who already has 2 expansions can easily hold this. The brige is no problem, 2 more tanks and some vults will give the enemy a hard time there. Nex he would take the smal raised jungle thing and get 2 more expansions.

Everything I mentioned is fairly easy to defend vs toss.
And this map really is not open.
SynDrome
the older version favored T, but now its kinda balanced. good job =)
Frank-Terrorist
Thanks SynDrome.

spinesheath, do you think there are too many walls around T's third gas? Should the bridge be widened? Less Doodads in the middle?

I think that a T who did what you said could definitely try to slow push through the middle in TvP, but by then, wouldn't P have 4 or 5 expansions and air support? Any good P would delay T from getting that 3rd gas for as long as possible... by the time T gets it, P probably has his 3rd gas and corner mins as well. I think by the time T secured that and pushed into the mid, P would have carriers/arbiters/temps and a good fight would ensue. The lower middle mins can't be tanked without a drop on the island (it's wide enough that a tank can't blast workers from the other side), so I think P could even take one of these, if he's got carriers/arbs to defend it.

The other 2 gas exps in the centre of the map are closer, so they'd be more interesting to defend. Probably a T would get raped if he took this too soon, since defending it and his nat simultaneously would be difficult.
spinesheath
My point is that the terran has an easy minonly and his gas nat, but none of those is facing anything like open terrain. There even comes another expansion that is fairly easy to secure (with the 7 facs you are pumping out of by then).

Well, it's not THAT drastic, actually ;) But I'd widen the bridge, and maybe push that raised jungle a little to the bottom so that you can move a little better. I'd also remove a little bit of the temple walls (maybe just from the top) or put just a little more dirt above those temple walls where the water is now. The top-center doodad should be moved one or two tiles to the top as well.

So no really big changes, because your map is fairly open, but has chokes at the -for terran- right places.
Frank-Terrorist
I don't want to mess with the raised jungle, because I want to ensure that a Terran doesn't get easy shots at workers on the other side. With the raised jungle as it is, a Terran has to come quite far around to be able to kill workers at the bottom centre bases. In late game TvT, this will help prevent one player from gaining a decisive advantage too easily.

I could widen those bridges... I'm really quite a newbish staredit mapmaker for the most part, but maybe I'll give it a try.

I'll try some tiny modifications to the chokes. However, I do think the chokes are in defensive spots... T is still gonna have a hard time slow-pushing though that middle if P is macroing hardcore. My goal here was really to try to give players opportunities to effectively attack and counter-attack during the middle-game. I think the cliff at the top, the entrance to the nat through the lower corners, and the various pathways leading to the nats and expos accomplishes that, in a way that's fair to all races.

There are enough accessible expos that turtles will get punished if they sit too tight. I fear that if I open it up too much more, it will be nearly impossible for terran to secure a 3rd gas vs a toss of equal skill.

Probably I need to add a bit more decoration as well. I'll upload a slightly modified version soon.
Frank-Terrorist
New version up!!

Changes:

- slight changes to water in middle and temple walls to widen chokes. I couldn't bring myself to do much more.

- added some ruins above the ramps to prevent any "drop-and-wall" kinda strategies.

- Added more doodads, and performed some overall map beautification.

Comments welcome!
modified by Frank-Terrorist
spinesheath
Widen the bridges and I am fine with it. BUt the way they are, you can't use those bridges at all as p in pvt.
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