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Last update for (2)Valley of Mist : 2006, 09, 03 17:33
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1579 (2)Valley of Mist 128*96Diminate0.1beta

The map has been rated 44 times and got a total of 5 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Diminate
Here I present my recent map.
Those expanded ramps are creating a 'valley.' So the players' forces would have to move skillfully in the center.

And the resource distribution is another noticeable point in this map.

Main : 10M(1200) + 1G / Nat : 7M(750) + 1G(2500)
Exp blocked with Neutral building : 7M(750) + 1G(2500)
Other expo : 7M(1500) + 1G

The total amount of the main mineral is 12000 which is 1500 * 8. And I splited the nat into two expos, one on the entrance of the base and one blocked with Neutral building. Protoss Temple has 1500 hp so it would not take much time to break it. So it is easy to get this exp.

This means that you are able to produce a lot of forces in shorter time. However, the amount of resource itself is same as the other normal maps. So the resource would run out pretty soon. I'm expecting very agressive play in this map.

Nightmarjoo
Wow a lot of gas
speaking of gas you have the gas issue, both on top to correct easily

This is really interesting, I've never thought of doing any kind of valley like this.

easily obtainable gas and lots of cliffs and the bridges as chokes and the tankable temple blocks near the mains/nats make this a very t map
Diminate
Well, I'm not going to worry much about gas issue anymore. The effect of gas position seems to be ignorable(For example, I never heard that Luna has unbalance among starting points because of gas position.) So, you don't need to inform me from now on.

Yes, first two expoes are easily obtainable, but the amount is half of normal gases. It would make T to produce same number of tanks when it took normal nats, but T would produce them in shorter time. However, this advantage is not only for T; P or Z also takes the same advantage. And Z would be the most beneficiary of this fast-but-small 3 gases.

You have ample opportunity in the center to prevent T's approach to the bridge to choke you. Bridge becomes problem when it is the 'only' route to attack. But this map has many other routes.

And 1fac 1star tank drop is not a big threat anymore in these days. And tanks on the temple block can be easily removed.


modified by Diminate
lnept
i was thinking more of a zerg map.

easily taken fast expo, with far distances making a bunker rush very difficult. the middle just has high land...its still wide open with all the ramps.

you can have 5 gas before you say mass ultralisks
spinesheath
Well, you SHOULD care about the gas issue, though. I just recently watched a 2/5 tvt on luna, so both with bad gas. One player used 4 workers while the other didn't and soon was in a heavy disadvatage though he took his gas at the same time and none of them made any mistakes so far. It clearly was an effect of the different gas speed.
I asked both of them after the game if they knew about the gas issue and yes, both knew about it, but one had forgotten to send a 4th scv. So that's how it is on luna: Players just send a 4th worker to the bad geysirs. While you can do this without a problem as terran or protoss, it has a huge impact in zvz.
I can also remember losing zvzs where I used more scourge and more effectively than my enemy and still he managed to outproduce me with mutas. That was when I didn't know the impact was that high, and I never understood why I lost those games back then.
And if you are experienced in zvz you know that a single drone more or less makes a huge difference.
Nightmarjoo
I highly concur with spinesheath, don't ignore the gas issue. And it is a problem on luna, SW main can have optimum mining but the other three need 4, that's an imbalance. And it is such on your map, an imbalance.
Diminate
Well, MSL used Luna for several seasons. There are many versions of Luna(Cengame Luna, MBC Game Luna, Luna the Final, etc.). The gas position changed at Luna 2.01 into so-called 'unbalanced gas position.' However, no other change was made after that. Progamer's are much more sensitive than we are. They earn money with it. How can they miss gas issue if it affect so much? But I never heard that pro's complained about the gas issue. That means that it is not a great problem at all.

The effect of gas issue is 18.5 per minute at most. When the time you produce your first mutals in zvz, you would have ample amount of gas. And by that time you can add your one more drone into the gas and optimize it. If your drone is still not enough to do so, you should worry abour your game management.

If you lost, that is because the opponent did better than you, not because such minor resource problem affected your play. Actually, I never thought that I should put four drones there. And I didn't feel that 11 o'clock position is bad to me. I also ran bwchart and compared my winning rate at 11o'clock base with my overall winning rate in Luna; there was not much difference.

And lastly, I can't change the position of the nat site gas. That is the optimal position for unit path way and defense tower construction.

spinesheath
You seem to be missing one point that is very important when it comes to balance:
A map does NOT have to be "equal" in all of its little aspects to be balanced, actually every little bit can be imbalanced and the map still can be balanced. And in the case of luna, you really can't list all the balance-important aspects anymore. That is because it has been played so much and has been balanced through tactics.

But your map is mirrored - it's just obvious that the best way to balance it further is to keep an eye on the gas issue.

And you should not give that much about the progamers... They are playing on a completely different level, they do know about the gas issue and they know how to compensate for it. But the player with worse gas will always have a small disadvantage.

Btw, pro maps such as Arkanoid, rh3, sin815 and fullmoon care about the gas issue. In fact they even have top gas alltogether. I know that 815 was modified according to the suggestions of some progamer, and if there was a gas issue before on it, I am certain that it was changed in this process as well.
NastyMarine
the idea is cool BUT

JESUS .. when u make a modified ramp:

MAKE SURE THAT EVERY TILE IS WALKABLE WHERE THEY SHOULD BE!!!! ALL OVER THERE ARE UNWALKABLE TILES.

i dont mean to be rude but its a simple correct.. open the maps up in scmdraft and select a unit and check arund the map for shadded tiling (which means a unit cannot be placed or travel in that area.. its the same with every type of terrain tile and tileset
spinesheath
Wow, that's gonna cause some weird pathing Oo

Also, there are so many dropspots on the temple wall around the main, even on the little walls next to the expansion in the middle of the main.
Tankdrop only terran Oo
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