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Last update for (4)Stone Castles : 2017, 07, 21 00:08
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
171 (4)Stone Castles 128*128Starparty, modified by Panschk[FP]1.6final

The map has been rated 50 times and got a total of 80 points
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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


trcc
Is there enough room for zerg to build pool and shits before they have to make a new hatch on the cliff ?
Starparty
pool works, but the idea is to force fast expansion. and for zerg they get a free gas exp and a choke, so why not.
trcc
yeah i agree :P Good map Big battles will occurs near min only because they are so near :P what's wrong with the map list? i get blank page
BlekDef
Nice map, but on thing is interesting to me:
the player at 3 has "blocked" by rocky ground way to his mineral exp. It could be some disadvantage for terran player going into tanks. If I'm wrong, correct me, becouse I'm good in theory, but my play sucks.
Also I think that players on left playing zerg could have some problems with defending their ramp from exp, becouse they have to build creep colony before they'll get to the ramp with creep, meanwhile players on right can build sunkens already next to ramp.
And player on bottom has the smallest starting place.
It can only my imagination, but those two things in game could be a little bit annoying.
Starparty
creep reaches ramp on all positions. it is checked.
panschk
__________the map list. Sorry I'll fix that in an hour when I get home...My FTP program loves loading empty files up without any reason. (I did a minor update fot the maplist.php)
Listoric
I think it's an average map. I miss cliffs and other tactical possibilities. It reminds me more of an WC3 map than a Starcraft map. The fights will be cool because you have the expansion next to your ramp, but it really lacks of creativity imo. You did better stuff already ;)
panschk
ok maplist bug should be fixed now-_-

Graphics are very nice, it has a similar feeling as Gaia, very natural looking.

I don't think it will play all that great the way it is now though. The building space is enough on the high ground if you only consider pure space, but you would have to put single buildings everywhere. Most players (like myself) prefer building their prduction buildings as big blocks like 2 rows of 5 barracks or stuff like that. You could easily move the choke a bit towards the middle of the map, and create more building space like that. The same thing would also be good to prevent units getting stuck in the mineral lines at the expansions.

Unfortunatly there are some position imbalances, too. Purple has a much longer distance to his natural/choke than the other players. Well that's even the case on Blade storm, I think it will be hard to fix it.
Starparty
The distance between bases was kinda intentional, since the map was supposed to be played 1vs1. I CAN move the choke a bit, thats a good idea. Units wont get stuck in minerallines, there is enough space on all pos for units to pass by on the oposite side of CC.
Starparty
My romantic idea is that strategic possibilities comes with imagination, not with presets :P i added a few flaws in the rock terrain to put tanks in in this new ver, and also moved the chokes so there is more buildingspace. But as for strategic possibillities, as i said, its what you as a player makes with the map, not what the map already has in stock for you :P Think what great harras could be made if you drop behind the base "hole" in each hill, where there is only a small wall separating from the water. then block there etc. There is definitely posibilities to harass.
Starparty
For instance, there is no point in placis many aditional hill spots here and there, cause people never use them anyway. Holding the bridge will also be essential to keep expansions in a top vs bottom game.
STIMEY D OKGM FISH
I think this is an art map the way it is now. Everyone should be able to expo quite quickly, which should force zerg to respond somehow otherwise they are hurt (expo more or lurker elevator).

This map is unique enough to be in anyone's collection until we see how it can be played a lot more.
Starparty
I was thinking if the center perhaps should only have 1 small bridge to make it a very important location to secure to get many expansions :9 response :9
Starparty
lol i accidently rated it 0 :)
STIMEY D OKGM FISH
that might be okay actually. terran would obviously hold it quite easily. maybe you should make two small bridges as far away from eachother as possible to connect the water
hefty
I really like this map! To me, it's more original in design than most amateur maps I have seen. Having a natural with gas at the defendable side of a ramp is pretty original, and will effect gameplay alot. Then there are the easily harassed main min lines. Finally, the positioning is very important as games where players start in the same part of the map will have dramaticly different map control fights, than games where each player has his own map part. Kinda like the Gaia concept, that last part.

It's more experimental than most of your maps SP -I like it when you experiment!
hefty
Are island gas nodes siegable? Left island gas looks siegable from 9 main, and right island gas can perhabs be sieged from below?
Starparty
It was perhaps flaws i wasn't really going to correct. In a 1v1 there are so many exps that some flaws like that are acceptable in my meaning. 3clock gas on LT was siegable for several years before anyone fixed it :) *cough* . I will consider the bridge-thing. It might be a really fun strategical point to fight for.
Starparty
Smaller bridges :)
STIMEY D OKGM FISH
this is one of my favorite maps in this catagory
Starparty
thank you for the compliments, tell me of any other suggestions or i will perhaps thinking of moving it to final..
panschk
I don't remember how it was before, but those two long but tight bridges will hinder unit movement. It should not be that easy to secure one half of the map, too. Make them wider please :(
Starparty
Nah i like it that way. The wide bridges had no tactical value...
hefty
Fix siegable gas! Either make it impossible to siege it, or just make it equally vulnerable each place (I would prefere the first solution).

Flaws like this might be acceptabel, but they certainly aren't desirable.
Starparty
You fix it instead, i wont be home for quite a long time now, so i only post comments @ work. Upload it in admin login :o
STIMEY D OKGM FISH
how bout some replays for it first? i'd like to see a tourney on it. i think it deserves it.
Starparty
But i cant play sc until i get a working computer :P
panschk
I have a game of myself against zorg on this map. Quite a nice game, even though I sucked big time and had such an advantage I wasted :[
Starparty
Ill watch it as soon as i can :)
STIMEY D OKGM FISH
another thing i like about this map is its islands. using high ground in those places looks great. i'd like more maps to do this with their islands.

another thing i like about islands is on one of peatza's maps he put 2 geysers. 1 geyser islands just aren't taken enough. maybe 2 geysers would be fun. it's worth playing more don't you think?
panschk
Starparty, take a look at the details please. There are some tiles that are not placed correctly. At blues natural expansion or on greens ledge, too.

You seem to be as motivated as before your holidays, thats good;)
Starparty
Why shouldn't i be? :P

are they serious flaws? im at work atm and definitely hasn't staredit to look at it ;P
panschk
lol, no emergency, no one will die because of that;)

But maybe take a look when your at home ;)
Starparty
Was making music all day so i hadn't tgot the time ;)
boongee
Make the bridges in the middle wide and I think this map will be perfect.
Starparty
they were wide, but it made no sence. i made shem smaller to make it a strategical point. with wide bridges it were impossible to hold the center.
boongee
Another idea - change the nat in main to 6 mins and the min only to 8 mins. Will help P in PvT
Starparty
Update suggestions,

* 2 patches from 1nat to 2nat
* Make island mineral lines unsiegable (although i like those flaws a bit..)
* fix graphical flaw in 6base :P
* Make center bridges equally siegable from respective island.

Anything else you can come up with which does not alter the concept or gameplay radically? :o
panschk
add a 3. bridge perhaps? You really need to make it easier to cross the bidges, just think of 2on2 with terran involved.
Starparty
Actually this map will be left with the issues.
Reasons:

1. The doodads dissapear when i open the map in SE making it too much work to bother.

2. Many flaws were intentional from the beginning. Why would my way of thinking have evolved drastically since then? I believe these flaws make the map. Some maps gain from being flawless - ok - but i dont think this does.

3. Read reason 1.
panschk
As I really like the map, but I did not want these flaws to be in it anymore, I edited it myself. Changes I made:

3 short bridges in the middle instead of 2 long
Move minerals like you said
Removed about a dozen of misplaced tiles (You see them even better in game than in staredit)
I did not care about island mineral lines, imo it's no problem if they are siegable.

Maybe most important: You (n)-file was an observer map actually. So it has to be updated anyway;)
picture of my version

panschk
I just playtested a bit against computer. Map seems to have no bugs or anything after my changes, but on top right and bottom right a terran with wallin at his choke can't really leave his base anymore when the natural is up and running without destroying the supply depots at the choke. But if you just move it back, 2 hatch expo for zerg might be difficult, so it's not that easy...
boongee
I really like the 3 bridges better.
Starparty
looks awesome. replace my version with that, and put your name on it. also make a better screenshot :P
Starparty
if you just move the ramp down 1 or 2 tiles then? creep would still reach the choke. and both right pos is already a bit better than left pos concerning that choke thing, so doing it like that would only make it better i think. just add a little piece of high dirt and put a ramp
panschk
Ok, I can do that.

But it is still your map, should I write "starparty, modified by Panschk[FP]" ?
Starparty
write "balancing by panschk" :)
SpoR[Mech]
Holy Shit 49 comments on this map!
Boregard
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