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Last update for (2)Oracular Visions : 2007, 11, 25 20:59
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2086 (2)Oracular Visions 128*128Lancet1.3experimental

The map has been rated 25 times and got a total of 32 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Lancet
The main and nat are right next to each other separated by a double choke from which 2 paths, right and left, lead to the center of the island through wide bridges with dwebs. The map center and some adjacent areas have plenty of room for flanking. Before you say P > T or Z > T notice that 6 of the gas expos are next to hills or islands from which tanks can shoot at them outside of the reach of melee units. The two additional gas expos on hills are small and very vulnerable.
NastyMarine
single d-webs ><
Arden(WoF)
It looks rather large... even though it is only 128 x 128. And the expos feel... idk... random? There doesn't seem to be an efficient flow. But it's not horrible, just needs some work.
Lancet
NastyMarine

Yes they are single dwebs,but they are on chokes. Do you think I should put more than one?

Arden(Wof)

"it's not horrible, just needs some work"

Thanks, that's as good a compliment as it gets around here! In terms of space the map is like a 1 vs 1 on lost temple without the islands. What do you think of the concept of the 2 paths? I have not seen many maps that feature this. What is your suggestion for the expos?
lnept
wow worst use of D web ive ever seen

"hey let me encourage turtling"
dont try to break the bridge, because you cant attack on it roflroflfl!111
Lancet
"wow worst use of D web ive ever seen"

They are at chokes, do you think I should put more? Do you think I should change the position? Please explain.

"hey let me encourage turtling"

Its a main and a nat nearby with the 16-2 lost temple format, many maps have this, please explain.

dont try to break the bridge, because you cant attack on it roflroflfl!111

Break the bridge? You can't attack on it? Of course you can attack on bridges, please explain.
lnept
can some one please reiterate what i said then. i cant think of any clearer a way.

YOU CANT ATTACK UNDER D-WEBS. so if you try to attack there expo, they just turtle that choke and you cant get through because YOU CANT ATTACK UNDER D-WEBS.

post again if you dont understand
Lancet
Thanks for the clarification but first of all you don't "turtle" a choke. Turtle is when you stay in your base and don't move out. Second, stablishing "mini-fortresses" at chokes was, is, and will be a common strategy regardless of dwebs. But of course this requires an investment of units. The twist of this map is that there are TWO paths leading to the center. As soon as you detect your oponent setting up a mini-fortress at a bridge choke you can send your troops the other way. Notice also that there are 3 ways to get to the center from each main. Believe me, I took this into account when designing this map.
lnept
rofl? turtling is NOT staying in your base. it would not be a viable strategy then. simply involves taking every expo until you have to enter a battlefield. this way you will always come on top in a battle with some one aggressive, so then toss in turn has to expand everywhere and somehow use these dweb bridges against terran.

Lancet
"turtling is NOT staying in your base. it would not be a viable strategy then."

I have never heard anyone define "turtling" the way you have defined it. Turtling IS staying in your base and that is why it is a bad strategy.

"simply involves taking every expo until you have to enter a battlefield. this way you will always come on top in a battle with some one aggressive"

Yes my friend, but what happens if the expos ARE in the battlefield? Capische?

"so then toss in turn has to expand everywhere and somehow use these dweb bridges against terran."

OK, here you got me. I thought that you were arguing that the dwebs on the bridges were bad for toss and good for terran. The range of a siege tank is a terrible thing to ignore!

For my opinion of how dwebs affect gameplay see some of my posts at the Caissa map thread.


modified by Lancet
Lancet
I tried to paste a picture here but I couldn't, oh well.

With respect to the expo layout of Oracular Visions, most expos (except the ones in the center across the nats) fall into a double spiral arrangement that makes a ying-yang figure of sorts. They are not random, they follow a progression.

Some posters expressed concerns about dwebs on bridges and the possibility of establishing a mini-fortress across the bridge. I want to argue that in this map this strategy is risky. Note that there are two exits from each main. Say you are in the SE main and your enemy places his/her units across from the bridge on the right next to your most logical third gas-nat expo. You can send your units left and enter the center and attack your opponent from two sides (across the bridge being the other). If you concentrate on the right your opponent may attack you from the left or vice versa, this is the "twist" of this map.

I tried to counterbalance the large size of the battlefield with the ample room for flanking by making most expos vulnerable to drops on cliffs or islands.


Lancet
I have been playing this map against the Raynnor-2 AI (a little improved over the original AI) and one interesting strategy that terran can use is placing buildings in the double choke. It is an effective way of keeping units from attacking the main plus nat. I think this, the many chokes and cliffs and islands compensate for the open space with room for flanking.
pOOwarriOr-
It seems difficult for zerg (and other races) to fast expand to the natural.

Also, I may not be looking closely enough, but in the pic there seems to be no ramp at the 5 main.
Lancet
pOOwarior,thanks your comment, I guess that this is a bit like lost temple where one of the strategies was to make a hatch next to your ramp in the valley leading to your expo so you could build sunks there. I have uploaded a T v P replay and, although I don't play zerg, I will try to make a replay for that race.

With respect to the ramp, it is there but it is an inverted ramp.
Alumni
Hey Lancet, I like this map alot and I'm a zerg player. I'd be willing to make some rep(s) with you on this. I think the middle might be a little tight from having alot of exps there but we'll see.
modified by Alumni
Lancet
I am not a very good player and my modem sucks so most of the time I play against the Raynor-2 AI (artificial intelligence) that is a few notches above the original Starcraft AI but still has limitations. I would be honored if you try out my map against someone and post the replays here.

Like I wrote above, it would seem to me that the best strategy for zerg is to build a hatchery just outside the main in the double choke to generate creep and build sunkens (like they did in Lost Temple). Then you just make lings, research burrow and place a ling sentry or overlord next to the bridges to alert you of an incoming attack.
modified by Lancet
Alumni
it was what i was thinkin hehe, triple hatch, 2nd hatch to secure chokes,3rd hatch for nat. I'll try and get some people to play this map.
Lancet
Thanks Alumni! I added a Z vs P replay showing the defense of the double choke with hatch/sunk/lings. This one sort of spooked me, I wiped the comp out with an army of lings followed by lurks. I need to figure out a protoss defense strategy for the double choke. I also added additional Terran replays against terran and zerg.
Crimson)S(hadow
anyone else having trouble watching the reps? did u use pp to save rep?
Lancet
Thanks for trying to view the replays. I downloaded the replay and watched it with no problem. This game was against the Raynor-2 AI (artificial intelligence), to view it you will need to download the AI at "http://www.entropyzero.org/BroodwarAI.html". If the file downloads as a "RAR" file you will need winzip or winrar to open it. You can download these from the web.
modified by Lancet
Lancet
OK I updated this map. I elliminated the 4 bases in the center that no one seemed to like and replaced them with two on opposite sides and added some deco. I am entering this map (which is among the most "normal" of my maps) into the EMOTY tournament! Any comments are welcome.

Hey guys, don't forget to vote for MOTM!
FateD
lol, i like tha map in general, but idk, I think if you made 1 of the bridges bigger than the others *then make it similar top/bot* it would be more interesting..

1 more thing i dont like is the ramp u used for bottom right, but thats maybe just me :P
Replays


--Lancet vs Comp(1on1, 1.14)
--Lancet vs Comp(1on1, 1.14)
--Lancet vs Comp(1on1, 1.14)
--Lancet vs Comp(1on1, 1.14)

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