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Last update for (2)Dreamcatcher : 2008, 07, 28 00:57
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2168 (2)Dreamcatcher 128*128flothefreak1.0final

The map has been rated 64 times and got a total of 61 points
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Comments:   GMCS (3 elements)


flothefreak
Actually, i did not want to create any new map before I have finished testing and updating all of my older maps. But as this one was already finished and laying on my PC for a long time now, i decided to give it a final touch, decorate and upload it.
Here you have it. It is a jewel to me and i enjoyed making it, i am only concerned if I overdid it with the setup of the natural. Here I'd like to have your comments on if, and how to change it. I thought i should maybe convert or delete this shaped mineral wall...

Some infos on the map:
-the chokes are 1rax-wallable, they should be even lingsafe, but that isnt tested yet.
-the round-shaped low-mineral-wall at the natural expansion has 8mins each, and you need to mine at least _2_ of them to create a small passage.
-naturals backdoors is one with 2x800HP power generators and another one with a 16-minblock on a ramp (both lingsafe).
-the areas/paths marked with a ZERO in GMCS _can_ be shot from tanks within the mainbase, but only partly. i am not really sure if I should enable full tankability or deny it at all. So I landed in the middle of it, making it partly shootable.
-at the nats, the space between the sprite-tempel and the bridge, as well as between it and the round-shape mineralwall can be closed with a pylon/turret/sunken to prevent large (ok, or medium) units like vults sneaking through. small units should still fit as normal.
-the natural itself is quite safe to the front, with neutral temples guarding the entrance, but is in danger when the enemy takes a backdoor.
-between the mainbase choke and the natural, there is another chokepoint which is made some smaller by another neutral, crashed battlecruiser. this chokepoint may also help defend, and you'd be able to watch the power-generator-backdoor more easily. i will test if a terran can wall with a rax there, being able to repair the battlecruiser. this could maybe help T to get his natural earlier; having the wall closer to it.
-i wanted the mineral only to be attractive, too. so i placed it where it covers the ramp to the center, the ramp to the natural and also some of the ridge to the dangered corner expo. it lies in an important strategical point, i guess.
-the right bottom corner and left top corner expansion is easy to attack, but if you take it, you are rewarded: the gas in it has 7500, all minerals are set to 2500 ore. there is room for defensive structures behind the minerals, though. the gas is placed in a way like the 12h/6H expos in R-Point. you can put a pylon to the left and right of the geyser, making it impossible for medium/large units to enter/reach your economy. I always liked this feature in R-Point, so i put it here.

That all i can think of now. i hope you like it, i spent much time on making and decorating it.
modified by flothefreak
NastyMarine
Finally :)

The map looks really interesting and players have alot of options with the terrain layout which most good players like. great stuff there.

Are all those mineral blocks at the nat(s) necessary?

Obstacle doodad(s) in the mains?

I'm going to mark gmcs.

good map i like it alot :)

flothefreak
there is only 1 tree in each main... that should not be a problem.
about the mineral blocks: i dont really like them now either. but if i dont block there, units will just go past the natural and attack the main directly (which is actually a problem in ZvT only...). so i dunno what to do there else. block the ramp/bridge as well? what's i now on my mind right now: connecting those lowmineralwalls to the nearest temple. like, a crescent then.
i think that's at least better (and making the defence of the natural less complicated)...
epidiOn
GMCS'd.

Looks really nice by the way.
Nightmarjoo
Yeah I really like this map. I only briefly read what you said, how does pathing work? Is it ok, or does it try and run into everything?
Lancet
Messed up this post, see below.
modified by Lancet
Lancet
Interesting strategical possibilities including that power expo on the sides. Why did you place those low value minerals in the nat as a "curve"? Why not move them up to block the bridge directly? Also, if you are say NE main and you have your nat up and running and you set the rally point for your units on the area south of your main, your units will exit the nat through the peon line. Finally, a command center/nexus/hatch there makes things a bit cramped. Maybe if you elliminate that mineral curve and just move the minerals up to the bridge it will make for more space.
modified by Lancet
Alumni
i actually think the curve like a crescent min block is pretty artistic/unique in terms of how it looks... gameplay probably still the same, just gotta mine more blocks to free up that path.

i like it, good map
Nightmarjoo
hmm I don't think it will get cramped, only having looked through the pic
flothefreak
i will have to test pathing with the crescent minwall and the 2 temples. both was added afterwards to the mapsketch. as far as i remember, i tested pathing along the HQ at the nat, but as this was long ago i will do it again.
flothefreak
fixed pathing
flothefreak
do you think this setup would improve the natural?

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

i would probably delete the second temple as well then, and replace it with terrain/doodadwall. again, every mineralblock has value 8, so you need either 1 drone to mine a way through the 3 outer minblocks, or 2 to mine through the wall at the back.

oh, the single mineral in THE OLD version next to the temple has 0, it is only to fix pathing. gameplaywise, a worker can mine it without getting any minerals to the hands.
Nightmarjoo
actually I think I do prefer that new version to the uploaded one
NastyMarine
i like the current version better.
flothefreak
as the temples were incidentally placed for allowing a fastexpansion and to make expanding not so dangerous, i dont think they're needed anymore, for the natural is already closed down by terrain/minwall now. at least the temple near the minwall will be removed, so the newer imageshack-version will be taken. seems much less messy and disturbing then. but i might keep the temple near the natural minerals, so it can still be used to apply pressure to a enemy's expansion. plus, you can widen the entrance to the natural, which is kinda small right now.
Lancet
flothefreak, I still don't understand the purpose in having that curve in the low value mineral wall in the nat. It may look "pretty artistic/unique" like Alumni said but what is its function (of the curve). Wouldn't a straight mineral wall that ran next to the bridge and up to the temple be the same? Then would have more space in the nat to, for example, place units for defense.
flothefreak
this crescent somehow derived (?) from the first version of the map. it was a block of minerals first, changed into a curve, changed into a crescent. i may have to edit it anyway, for it _may_ be possible to hit the nat with tanks (and those would be quite strong in TvZ in this position, safe by minerals and a choke at the back.
Excalibur
I like the mineral block just how it is. But tanks are a problem indeed.

I think its a really really interesting map.

Now all we need is something like this in a (4). (:
flothefreak
i brought the two temples back. i also couldnt figure out a way to ZvT-balance all three backdoors. so i changed two of them into one. now you can use this backdoor either with mining the 16 minblock on the ramp, OR just destroy the 800hp power generator if you have no workers with your troops. both ways, you get led to the exit next to the battlecruiser, who now even gets more attention :>
lnept
wow cool map, actually looks balanced too
lnept
dont like the mineral shit at nat though, I think another neutral building would suffice to at least have some consistancy in the style, players could get a bit confused
flothefreak
yes, that is also my concern
i am still not satisfied, but i like that you like my map xD
NastyMarine
yea i agree with lnept. seems very complex though in actuality its fairly simple. I think it might be a little bit too much for players to handle. It's very interesting though which makes the focal point to be in various areas of the map just cause of what you implemented there.

Imo, i dont like the bridges now, but i think they can work fine.
flothefreak
the natural was crowded, it is simpler now. i turned the backdoorramp to the other side of the cliff, so you can mine (8mins) a faster route to the cellprison backpath. the bridge is blocked by 16mins and using it doesnt kill zerg necessarily, as i tightened down the path along the nat.
DeSade
Way better with those bridges now.
Lancet
Much better, thanks for getting rid of that mineral crescent, I will watch the replays.
RaDiX
pathing?
flothefreak
works fine. if not, i would be working on it :>

only the part from main to natural is a bit awkward. working, but kinda weird.

i enlarged the mainbases, and added a 10th minblock. as every expo beyond the nat is hard to take and secure, it seems necessary to balance PvZ and TvP a bit.
modified by flothefreak
flothefreak
i changed the center slightly, for it seemed to wide for TvP and PvZ. a raised jungle-thing cuts it down a bit. now, for nasty:

The map "Dreamcatcher" features dynamic gameplay and many tactical options. Many paths and routes make all areas of the map easily accessable, giving way to fast reaction to attacks.
Important notes:
The natural has two backdoors: A small bridge leading to its flank (and quick passage to the mineral only expansion); minblock=16. The backdoor beyond has a 2000-hp building but is much deadlier (minblock at near ramp=8). The exposed corner expos feature blocks of 2500 minerals each and a 7500 geyser. I hope you enjoy my map.
modified by flothefreak
bogmonster
at first glance i thought half of the blocking minerals and neutral buildings could go but they really are all necessary.

I really like how in the middle of the map there are no resources but it is still very important.

my only suggestion is drop down to the standard 8 or 9 mineral fields in the main. either that or loose some at the nat. gj
flothefreak
well, every epxand after the natural is hard to take, forcing T in TvP and p in PvZ to play long out of 2 bases. i think 10 blocks are necessary for the balance of this map. that is what i think after testing it a lot
RaDiX
imho needs a bit more gas...
flothefreak
hm, should i switch the minonly to the lowground next to it, and add a gasexpo on the highground between the large and the dualramps?
Crimson)S(hadow
i love th way how theres a bridge right in front of the ramps
NastyMarine
i heard some comments about the main sizes. i guess you should make them bigger.
flothefreak
i made some minor modifications of removing doodads, moving startpos., moving the choke slightly and adding terrain in order to give player as much room as possible. esp. bottom pos. is much nicer now.
flothefreak
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=1541

8(
trcc
I might be crazy, but i see 2 wings in the middle ( the grass parts ) Like the wings in mario bros ! hhaha

Wings of glory ? lol
flothefreak
:)

/edit
i'd also like to hear your opinion about this map
modified by flothefreak
RaDiX
added one gmcs
flothefreak
yeah... unfortunately i cant balance this without screwing the equal-sized paths :<

but thanks, i will see if i can change that somehow. maybe i need to push that highgroundwall to the outside slightly, even if that would be a hell lot of work -.-
Nightmarjoo
lol are you gonna rename the map? Spitfire wants his map name back^^

ugh that gmc fix will be a pain, how did that happen? lol
modified by Nightmarjoo
Narcisse_
so cool!
hour it remains and it wants doing.
Testbug
shouldn't you rename this map?
ther is a map named dreamcatcher already.
id: 1541
modified by Testbug
Deathman101
This post is not displayed due to its content
Crackling
This post is not displayed due to its content
ProTosS4EveR
Deathman,on maps you unburied, author were probably all dead, and I think flo is still alive if the did not see (2)Airmap :S
RaDiX
plz admins, delete those 2 last post (3 including mine.)

@deathman: this map is the current motm, of course you can comment this, and testbug's comment wasn't actually that bad.
flothefreak
wtf?
am i sick or did somebody change the picture and add strange hallu things like BC and vessel around the naturals!?!
modified by flothefreak
ProTosS4EveR
Hacked? xD
Can you do the middle ramps better, they are shitty in the middle on them.
modified by ProTosS4EveR
ProTosS4EveR
FLO! REPIAR TIHS FCUKING ULGY MIDLDE RAPMS!1!1
Moebius
Wtf is your problem?
Testbug
the center wide ramps in the middle are ugly copy/pasted in the middle wrong
ProTosS4EveR
DO IT QUIKCYL BECUASE I THNIK I GONAN DEI!1!1
Moebius
While your at it, fix the redundant use of the same mineral type (check GMCS).
flothefreak
yap i will take care of that
nowhereMan-
cool map O_O


  
5
Replays


--flothefreak vs dreamz(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs Antrax.On.Ice(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs scorn.on.ice(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs scorn.on.ice(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs ilko[shlt](1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs v-gundam(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs ang)siegetank((1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs eniman(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs awc.artanis(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs nwo-flopgun(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs nwo-flopgun(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs nwo-flopgun(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs loveskunk(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs mj.radix(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs missmuschi(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs Kaesetoast(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs Kaesetoast(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs Kaesetoast(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs Kaesetoast(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs get.infested(1on1, 1.14)
--LGI vs Soap[Clean](1on1, 1.14p)
--browarjestspoko vs ton4ef(1on1, 1.14p)
--browarjestspoko vs nf_Vincent(1on1, 1.14p)
--SLaY[F2F] vs Potiguar(1on1, 1.14)
--SLaY[F2F] vs Naib[F2F](1on1, 1.14)
--SLaY[F2F] vs inf.Pike(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs whoever(1on1, 1.14)

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