You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
|i needed a larger edit which basically makes it a new map - but i couldnt delete the old map because it was motw. so new thread.|
-i changed the side and top/bottom expos to a more accessible and more reasonable layout.
-the uncomfortable mainbase style is solved into a comfortable dual-main, which basically feeds the concept while being not as weird and exposed because it's more safe together. i needed a way to deny a instant terran lift which doesnt slow zerg, so i used a kind of new technique in the best way ever so far: a neutral DT denys fast expo of terran and protoss, but zerg has (overlord) instant vision to kill it. i think this really kicks ass now ;o
i could keep the concept of balancing zerg on airmaps, and even improved comfortability and style of the map (notice how the main isnt looking as awkward as before). the DT is the top of it all. :D
-remaining expos modified
|DT is in wrong side in purps and teal's mains (if u want to get them not-to get nuclear silo or scanner)|
|It obviously is to prevent an "fe". I don't think t or p would construct another CC/Nexus with the distance being this short, anyways. I would move the expansion further away. Especially, if a terran DOES construct a second CC, he should be able to have addons for both of them.|
|if terran builds 2 command centers it won't be able to build comsat in both of them.|
main mines would be better if the expo is not that near.
it's ok to keep the dark templar to balance zerg in island maps, but give other races a strong thing like terran abusing of siege tanks, or giving more minerals for protoss.
zerg and terran will need more gass than mineral.
and i don't like movement all around the center.
what about moving the multies to the other side so i can be attacked and defeneded from main mines.
algo the center is not that mportant, i would take some more attention to the center island.
i like the new bridges but the old1 was some special, that tar at 3 and 9, i would remove it and give some more space to battles
|i changed the mains according to your suggestions. i didnt make a new picture, but the start location is now moved to the mapedges on the right&left.|
|i would remove the 3 and 9 expos but thats just me. id like to hear other opinions on that|
|looks good. but i dont like the mains. it prevents comsat or nuc add on cuz the nat line is so close|
|no it doesnt anymore, nasty. only the pic is old|
|map and pic update. i managed to make the DT/expo combination in a way terran cant just land next to the DT and have all access to the many minerals.|
|I really like how the magnified circle is of SW but the circle it points to is in the NW :D|
|that's for copyright reasons only.|
modified by flothefreak
|how's the map flo?|
|updated it, the starting pos. has now 2 additional blocks (200/400)|
i still think the map needs work. maybe it's because the inbase-expo thing is unusual, so it's always a weird BO. the expos around the center island need editing, they feel strange. maybe i'll just delete them, because there are many expos on the map. plus, the first choice is always the doublegas main; (something i dont like very much) so you'll focus more on those.
should i delete the neutral DT? it would become quite standard airmap then, but certainly less weird than now. for the zerg balance purpose, do you think i should keep those both expos without block, but make each only 5 minerals? that would really help zerg i guess, being able to expand fastest. 400-300 is much having 5 blocks and zerg is not hurt by those lost minerals, while the others are. i would love this setup more, because even me knowing the map, the dt is somewhat annoying.
besides the 4 center expos on the ring, the mainbases as first choice of expoing and the dt, the map plays well. if i delete the ringexpos, the centerexpo will change, though, to be more strategic.
tell me your thoughts if 2x 5min expos would work for zerg.
|I really think you should keep the DT blocker. It's a unique way and it functions as a great delay. Truthfully, I've found it makes the BOs stay pretty normal as is. Protoss basically FE's with a fast forge or can head towards drop tech faster and snag obs on the way. The addition of the two smaller mineral patches should help that second option out a lot. As for Terrans, Comsats are pretty valuable on islands for scouting as it is, so the DT setup just encourages something that was bound to happen anyways. Basically it creates just enough of a delay for toss/terran that they don't get gimped, but don't become super powers against the zerg.|
The main thing I've liked about this map is that because of its size and the incredible 8 expos on the ground level is that it doesn't play quite like an island map, but a semi-island. Air still makes its way in often, but dominance of that lower ground level has proven to be incredibly strong because it has so many resources. Remove the DT and zerg becomes weaker while toss/terran are free to just destroy the air. In its current state, zerg has the speed it needs to assert itself either in the air or on the ground, which works well for the map.
However, I don't much care for the central expo. I've played 2 matches here and watched another, and it only got taken in one game as a desperation move. It's so wide open and vulnerable that unless you go for a very strong air force it's too difficult to defend, even to justify all the minerals.
|if i were protoss i wouldnt even make a 2nd nexus. Wouldn't it be a waste of money? its different for Z here cuz he'll need another hatchery anyway for macro etc and terran can just cc + comsat so i dont think it would be a waste so much. But even then Terran is wasting 400 mins just to have 1 second faster mining speed? dunno how that would work out exactly but its odd. :)|
|well, you get a new expo with gas due to a second HQ!|
|Pretty much every race will want to "expo" to that second patch. For zerg, you'll need the hatch anyways. For Terran you can lift the original away and use it to take a ground base. Protoss is the only really gimped race here (somewhat suiting, since they're usually so strong at island maps) and even so, building the extra nexus makes a big difference. Not only can you repopulate probes lost to harassments faster, but it's a long way to that gas. Particularly in PvZ and PvP the 400 min cost of getting closer to that gas vent seems very reasonable. Plus, I imagine adding that one nexus will speed up mining time a lot more than adding 8 probes (though I'd have to check).|
|yeah, no way I'd go with only one CC for long stretches of time on that map.|
Seriously, this map is just great! You certainly should not drop the DT thing. There may be some balancing issues, but I don't think they'll be solved by theorie-crafting only.
make it motm or something:)
|update, as it may become motm:|
-the 4 center expos are now slightly better shaped
-instead of DT; we got neutral mines now =)
-center expo changed to 2gas and minerals each 500 (as it wasnt the key expo it should be in 2on2)
|Just btw, really original, but I had posted a map with DT block bfore, so not 100% new :P|
(the map was bad tho, which isnt the case here)
(the map was deleted but was called 0-Ground, nothing to do with 0clutter btw)
Gj man, you really found the way to use those cloaked blocks :D
PS: Just wondering, shouldnt there be a lil more room to build on the ground level? thats the only complain i can do about this map :O
modified by FateD
|all crags are completely buildable, except the large connected blotches at 12,6,9,3 o'clock next to the very center expo.|
|Kinda gas heavy. The first Mirage was pretty bad, like you had so much gas you had a gigantic surplus of it. Now, I know this is an island map, but the land part is just too tight to support armies this heavy in gas imo.|
Will test it with you if we're ever up at the same time. I get home from school around 4pm (22CET), which probably makes this hard.
Mines are interesting.
Dunno, not sure that this expo layout is all that great (the land locked one), and I'm no fan of the middle expo, but it still is a nice strategic neutral expo, so w/e. I kinda want to see a reform of E/W expos, and maybe a min only added in front of the mains, in that open area. You're gonna build buildings there anyway, might as well get some minerals while you're at it. I reccomend making it reasonably high money, atleast 7 blocks, and maybe higher than 1500 minerals each, just so you'll get some minerals with your gas.
|yeah i also dont really like the 3h/9h expos...|
and i also know it is very tight. i thought about connecting the center island to the ground at all 4 directions, or only 2 of them (top and bottom), while making it highground possibly...
modified by flothefreak
|-opened center expos at north and south|
-moved the expos in this center so there is still a small path between two CC/hatch/nex
-added deco in the center, also added sprites
-oh, and pic is showing older player colors, i changed them to be more visible on desert afterwards
modified by flothefreak
|wouldnt a photon cannon be able to get rid of those mines before a zerg even started building the hatch? :P|
|Don't think so. But that brings up good point, that p can pylon/forge/cannon/nexus FE like on most maps, only any mu. So, terran is only race slowed by the mines, and since 2base p > 2base z I'd say this is a protoss map, just like any other island map ._.|
I guess I like it more now, dunno. I still don't like the expo layout ._.
|"So, terran is only race slowed by the mines, and since 2base p > 2base z I'd say this is a protoss map, just like any other island map ._."|
yea very good thought
the best imo would just to put a mineral with like 100 minerals, that way all get exp same speed, but i dont know :)
its a cool map
|OR separate the 1nat with a geyser where you have to jump. protoss is the only race who cant jump geysers.|
|This post is not displayed due to its content|
|Are those spider mines I see in the little "magnifying glass" bubble?|
modified by Rye
"OR separate the 1nat with a geyser where you have to jump. protoss is the only race who cant jump geysers."
I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THISSS
|there are lots of unwalkable tiles in the 4 bridges :S how couldn't we found0'em?|
|protoss creates the assimilator on top of the geyser. The scv goes on top of the refinery to build it, this means that he can wander to any side, and then you can hit escape and he gets off the refinery, on the other side maybe. Zerg goes on the geyser, if you cancel it, he can fall off on the other side.|
--flothefreak vs da]raven(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs m.s.s.)nosu(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs Sky)r(deadprezz(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs Sky)r(deadprezz(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs darkestemplar(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs tomyself(1on1, 1.14)
--flothefreak vs saguna(1on1, 1.14)
--panschk[FP];flothefreak vs ptar, mjradix(2on2, 1.15)
--flothefreak vs xiaonan(1on1, 1.15)
--flothefreak vs nik0r(1on1, 1.15)
Upload replay for this map