|Borrowed concept from MapGhost's "Mazicolizist".|
Main minerals are 12 stacked of 250 minerals. Gas geysers are also unusually close to the mains. One can escape their void up into the island cliff if they like.
My biggest concern right now is building room, but I want to wait a bit to see if people can be creative enough with their positioning to overcome it. Otherwise, it probably isn't a big deal to extend the land out to the corners of the map.
As usual, picture does deco no justice :)
Also: creep from main hatchery extends out of the void enough that you can build a pool, and a den and probably a spire too if you wanted.
modified by PsychoTemplar
|fastest+low money mulatto map :/!|
hmm and also why make null terrain in the first place...
|CUZ ITS KKOOOOOOOL! |
"I use Null tile. You can move from starts to center or expo (=Platform Tile), but you can't move from center or expo to starts.
You can't bulid your terran and protoss buliding at your starts. if you are terran or protoss, you must have your gas expo.
I can't explain clearly because It is hard for me to explain it......;"
modified by PsychoTemplar
|Apart from the start locations (which have gas issues anyways), this is very blah.|
|All gas are to the left of the SL, how is that gas issue? This map will play incredibly different from other maps, so I don't know how it's blah ;P|
|My mistake, I didn't see blue's gas underneath the trees from the picture at first.|
|YOU CAN MOVE FROM THE NULL TERRAIN TO THE HIGH GROUND! but there are the low-to-high walls. how can you pass the wall (cliff)??|
well, a terran tank drop won't be too strong then.
i have tested the map. and terran can build it's barrax and supply depot in the highground with no problem. so it's nos vulnerable to zergligns or zealots.
i though you can only build in the low ground, so i was thinking it was an imbalanced map cuz your buildings in the open area.
now. if protoss build the pylon and base in the high ground. terran will be able ton drop siege tanks in the low ground. protoss will be abple to send only probes from null-to-low ground.
if porotoss build pylon+base in the low ground.
then terran will drop tanks in the high ground. also protoss will be able to send only probes to defend it.
(talkig about a fast 1 base tank drop)
zerg is not very powerfull with the 3 hatch with cash because the hatchery in the highground won't be able to send units to the battlefield.
also YOU CAN DROP UNITS IN THE NULL TERRAIN!! but cannot build a nexus on it...
his is very interesting... maybe you can use this in onther type of map...
|lol you can build the spowning pool in the low ground, in the open area.|
i'll prefer to have my 1st hatch in the defendable highground because the lowground is too opened.
but spowning pool will be to vulnerable to zealots or something... i don't know how is gameplay changing with this concept. but this is very interesting... let's see if we can make some more micro-oriented maps :D
|or you can place a creep colony somewhere (if you place it inside of the null the creep will extends to the buildable terrain) if you place it outside of the creep. other races will be able to kill it with zealots or marines :D|
(scout scv can kill 400hp easy)
|"if porotoss build pylon+base in the low ground.|
then terran will drop tanks in the high ground. also protoss will be able to send only probes to defend it."
Invest in shuttle? Cannon? lol I don't think people realise how weak a strategy tank drop is. There's a reason nobody does it anymore. Never the less, this map is probably hilariously imbalanced. I just can't say for who yet ;P Cannon rush would be pretty devastating to an uncautious Terran, especially if he just took his cliff ;P
|The option of transition to high or low ground is very cool. Did you make the "void" space so small to allow for the creep of the innitial hatchery to extend out? Is that why you also adopted the stacked mineral design of Mazicologist and the nearby geyser? I like the map and it should go to the Experimental Map Competition.|
"Invest in shuttle? Cannon? lol I don't think people realise how weak a strategy tank drop is. There's a reason nobody does it anymore."
Huh? News to me, a tank drop can be devastating and also slow your oponent down. But I think it depends on the map. In maps like lost temple or Road to Antiga Prime a tank drop near the nat is Zerg's and Toss's worse nightmare.
modified by Lancet
|Tank drop is only a nightmare if you panic and don't know how to handle it. Otherwise, it's a giant risk for the Terran and really sets him back (there's a reason you don't see tank drops in progames on Tau Cross).|
|EXCEPT WHEN I PLAY ON TAU|
|You're not a progamer.|
|I watched the replays, do you think that maybe the map is a bit exposed for terran with the nat having two entrances?|
|No. I think the Terran was a pussy :)|
"Invest in shuttle? Cannon? lol I don't think people realise how weak a strategy tank drop is. There's a reason nobody does it anymore..."
lol you haven't played original Jungle Story? it was a race between tank drop and reaver drop.
if you go to the gighground, the low ground will be your jungle story.
if you go low ground. the high ground will be your jungle story.
anyway, you can just build the factory in your lowground and oponent's highground mineral fields can be hit from the lowground ¬¬
lol, you don't see dtank drop in reverse temple and tau cross because it is the nat expo. zerg 3hatch muta > tank drop
|And it wouldn't on this map? I don't care how impressive your tanks look, it's only gonna take a sunken or a couple lings to stop it.|
|What patch make sunks > tanks? o.o|
|you want to stop a tank with a sunken colony? plase shut up and only write about the maps allright?|
|I'm pretty sure if you put a sunken on that cliff, a Terran is gonna have a hard time landing on the cliff -.- But sure, don't use your brain to think about context at all.|
|lol this map sucks and u talk shit psychotemplar >.>|
|I don't like this map and I'll tell you why. There is no actual point of defence for any base. There is a lack of actual base space, it all just looks like paths. Imagine a game going long and toss needed 6+ gates or terran 6+ factory's. Think of the units trying to get through a cluttered base. I don't think the null tiles make this map any better at all, but with experimentation I expect to see a popular null tile map eventually, something like the Rainbow Cup on Mario Kart :). Also, The island mineral blocks aren't necessary. |
Here are 2 ideas,
1. Make the starting locations on the high terrain and have ramps going down to the nat. A little bit of re-working the layout around the mains and naturals and it would be a nice 2 entry map.
2. I also think this map might be decent using the current start locations if the entire thing was inverted. Put all the low terrain on high terrain and all the high terrain on low terrain.
Both of these ideas rule out the entire null tile, and tree circle/stacked mins/close mins idea, which kind of destroys the revolutionary purpose.
For this to work, it will just have to be trial and error, I would try working a standard map and moving the null tile thing in slowly instead of trying to throw it all together at once. That is the impression I got from this map. Sorry I type so much!! :P
modified by Allstar4
|without the null tiles this map would merely be "one more map", keep them! Just make more space around the nat (get rid of some water).|
|This new concept really sucks.. -_-|
|FateD, the second half of your sentence where you explained why you think the concept "really" sucks seems not to have been posted.|
|"without the null tiles this map would merely be 'one more map', keep them!".|
I agree comepletely, but it just isn't working. Start small, set a standard, then build upon that. I was trying to point out how to make it still a decent map, but the null tile idea doesn't have a standard set so until there is a good null tile map I don't see these going anywhere.
I think it would be cool to make a map like Luna or something, all space terrain, and make the 'out of bounds area' unwalkable terrain. That would truly be revolutionary. (Azalea would probably work better since it is all on even ground.) Maybe I'll tinker around with that and see what happens. Which program(s) has the null tile?
modified by Allstar4
|"1. Make the starting locations on the high terrain and have ramps going down to the nat. A little bit of re-working the layout around the mains and naturals and it would be a nice 2 entry map."|
That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. You make me want to quit SC.
"There is a lack of actual base space, it all just looks like paths. Imagine a game going long and toss needed 6+ gates or terran 6+ factory's."
I could easily fit 10 gates, which is more than enough. I have a version with more space (some extended room behind the corner nats), but I still haven't tried this version yet, so I'll wait a bit.
"lol this map sucks and u talk shit psychotemplar >.>"
lol suk mi dick lozer
|Well lancet, im not alwais saying bad things about map.. I just dont like how this concept doesnt fit with the whole point of making good maps..|
To me, and i think to most ppl, maps r about balancing and making them nice..
For the balance, i cant say anything, since idk what balance looks like with those..
But for the look of it, idk.
Its just like if u left part of ur maps undetailed/ unworked since u simply spam the same tile over n over
|"That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. You make me want to quit SC."|
Maybe you should, my criticism is constructive and I don't deserve that kind of disrespect. Just because you didn't make the perfect next generation map doesn't mean you have to take out your frusterations on me when I see something else in the map. I know these maps take a long time to make but I've made maps that I've spent tons of time on and I don't get many helpful comments like I am trying to do for you so maybe you should be more appreciative, even if you don't like my ideas.
modified by Allstar4
|"my criticism is constructive and I don't deserve that kind of disrespect."|
|Allstar4 and testbug, perhaps you can make better maps than PsychoTemplar and me with the null terrain. I at least would be thrilled if you tried. Having more persons thinking about how to exploit this new idea would be welcome.|
FateD,it's just a new idea, like spells. It brings some new and diffrent things into the game. The initial maps won't be perfect or even maybe good, no question about it, but to walk down a road you need to take the first step.
|You guys seem to think this is some kind of new concept. I've seen this done at least a year ago.|
|It's new at least to me and that is all I need to be excited about it.|