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Last update for (4)DEmainstest : 2007, 12, 29 07:29
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2662 (4)DEmainstest 128*128FateD0.9betaground

The map has been rated 35 times and got a total of 33 points
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Comments:   GMCS (2 elements)


FateD
Aight, Yea, once more, my image making thingy (mapconverter1,7) wouldnt work n make me a pic right.. So heres the map! without pic :/

some1 plz upload pic lol :D ty
Alter.Ego
...
modified by Alter.Ego
Nightmarjoo
Hm, it's ok. I dislike the annoying pythonesque mains. Why not, for example, fill in some of the space to the right of red's main, and move the ramp up slightly and have it face down right? Then reciprocate for the other positions; this makes a lot more space in the mains by creating a flat edge which isn't in the way. Maybe add some space behind the main minerals too.
I'm concerned that red vs teal would be too linear for tvp? The nat seems to jut out a little too far.
The map is pretty similar to python though =/
Want to give zerg an ovy spot? -.-
The islands are kind of annoyingly small.
Top left expo is wider than bottom right expo?
The min only is hard on protoss, especially in red vs teal positions.
I think the middle is deceptively open, and is on the tighter side; note how it is smaller in the very center than in the areas closer to red or purple; I think this further exhasporates pvt, but not having played the map I can't say for sure.
Can blue/teal be tanked from the islands?
Have you considered making those paths behind the gas expo island by blocking off that temple wall gap?
Aesthetically it's beautiful, that alone will get you a lot of attention and support despite the immense similarities between it and python, and the possible balance issues =/
I don't like the differences in the ruins/rocky dirt patterns in the middle near the min onlys.
I also dislike the obvious flaws in the proportional symmetry, especially those which could easily have been cloned using x/y mirror tool in scmdraft -.-
I somehow doubt the airdistances to the islands are the same.
Are you sure the main sizes are the same? ._.

I think, despite being so similar to python in many ways, and despite the cover of great aesthetics over the gameplay/balance flaws, regardless of any issue I or anyone else name, I think that this map is still a lot better than your other maps: hence my long comment. Don't worry though, once you get past this stage in mapping you get fewer comments on your maps, so enjoy the long comments while you can :)
Testbug
Teal main can't be harrased from water.
it's be hard for mutalisk to distract teal.

Blue minonly(9 o'clock) and red minonly (7 o'clock) can't build a ComSat Station (well, red can but not in the optimal place)

also purple nat can build lots of turrets.
the others cannot (red cannot because you used the last line of squares)
FateD
Hmm, I already fixed a few of those thingies, updating map :P

All minonly are comsatable, All nat are now a bitch to defend with rets :D (which is what i wanted to do lol) I tried making blue's main bigger bc of how i put his gas, i thought that would take alot of room sorta "covered"
and, i though about blocking the behind pathway with something, but then it was almost useless bc the time it took to have a 2nd way into it was way too long for an attack to still bc affective (the gap into nat isnt that big either)
and also, this way, if a T slow drop alot of tanks in there n wouldnt kill the building, u wouldnt be able to flank him really and.. that would suck lol

I aint sure about the distance from mains to islands, i gotta say, i didnt think of that lol :(

Ive already tested tanks from islands and nothing really is tankable so.. (well maybe if u built as close a u could to the island behind ur mins but.. I mean comon lol

and, to be honest, i was aiming more for something similar to gaia or close, not for python.. but i spose it ended up like a python clone :(

anyway, i only tried it in like 5 2v2s and so far, every1 had a good time n liked it i think :O

Btw Nightmar, <3 the long comments like that, its my 1st 1 i ever get !!!!! lol
if you have other flaws u got spot... id be glad to fix em :D
FateD
btw pass to map is 1, so uploading pic shouldnt be a problem to anyone :O

sry my program just wont work


Btw Testbgu, should i try n switch teal's mins n gas? (id check the gas article i cant remember which side works best) so it would be harassable?

Btw, do you like the halfed cliff decos i tried to put in it?

also, Nightmarjoo, I really need to know how to make full trees doodads lol XD

modified by FateD
modified by FateD
Crackling
carkling makes pic
carkling haaaaappy
FateD
<3 carkling :D

tho, on pic, the pic shows the non updated so read this bfore posting plz:

purps nat now has no room behind mins to build rets, each min only is comsatable

and idk if the pic shows top slot with 8 mins at mains, but it has 9 lol
modified by FateD
Lancet
I like it. That corner route next to the nats is sure to spice up gameplay! However I wonder if it will be too much in a TvP 3v7 or 1v9 positions. A terran tank-vulture push by that narrow alley may be hard to stop. The gas worker lines in the nats seem like they will be in the way of units trying to go into those corridors plus the gas is also very vulnerable close to the entrance of the corridor. Consider moving the gas in the nats away from the entrance of the corridors.
FateD
yea, but thing is, 1st expo in those positions prolly wont be nats, thats what will be the funniest i think ^_^
Lancet
Are we understanding each other here? By 3, 7, 1 and 9 I meant o'clock, like the numbers in a clock, and I was talking about the mains where players will end up in those matchups, call them diagonal matchups. And those expos are right next to the ramps, they are the nats.
NastyMarine
overall, very good map. needs some shape tweaking. For example: make 9 and 3 less wide.
Testbug
no, you only fixed the uncomsatable minonlies, but you still cannot build enough turrets at nats.

blue gayser can be at left. you also should move teal mienral formations to the water so they can be harrased as others :)

blue/red nat backdoor doesn't have the geyser path issue.

you should move the blue start location to the right, it feels uncool in-game.

purple-blue and teal-red nat to nat distances are too short. being the others tooo long

blue and teal minonlies are hard to defend, too opened and cause path issue in vertical movement

what are those shits are "1623, 1448 (50,45)" and "2169,2597 (67,81)"

also you made a wrong copy/pasted high dirt at "1111,2640 (34,82)"

please remove that

about decoration... why do you mix dirt with jungle eerywhere? why not only jungle somewhere with trees. and only mud in other places.. with myabe some square rocky ground ;)

your 3 mains are the same! (look at my maps for example... (3)Obsession Shrine, (3)Paranoid Android or (3)Endless Fields ^^)

i dislike this map, it's too clasik, yes, it looks like a python clone, but it's played very diferent.
plase, download the map before flaming :D

this is your 1st map, i don't know about playing starcraft, read nightmarjoo's post for balancing your map.

ask me only about decoration and mineral formations or so :P
FateD
Oh shit, wow, sry Lancet, lol i guess i saw 12 3 n 9 6 sry :O

what i meant is in 12/3 and 9/6, some players might be tempted to expo elsewhere bc of short distances

btw testbgu, i tried to make new doodads using halfed cliffs in this 1, look around more, theres some at bot right min only, 1 at island top right
im just trying make new thingies for coming maps :D

btw, the copy/paste mistake wasnt 1 lol :P

about the nat gases blocking, should i try n put the other 2 gas blocking too or move the 2 ones that are blocking so they dont? idk what to do in this :O

oh n btw, my mains r prolly similar bc its a 4 player map? :P (that excludes 9 ofc, its too big)
modified by FateD
FateD
Btw also, for the mixing at everywhere, I think I just felt like making an original deco, (which actualy look cool on minimap :D)

and for trees, I know it might sound lame, but i didnt manage to get a tree that wasnt cut in the middle of it :( lol Xd
FateD
Oh and last thing, Lancet, i did intend to have the gas to be very vulnerable from anything that comes by that narrow passage :P

I sorta wanted to make the nat really barely worth it, like a dangerous expo to take, that wouldnt give so much advantage
Allstar4
"to be honest, i was aiming more for something similar to gaia or close, not for python.. but i spose it ended up like a python clone :("

When I opened this map at a quick glance I thought it was a reversed version of Gaia, if that makes you feel any better.

I don't like the distances between bottom and top players.
FateD
lol woot :D

but yea, for distances, i sorta wanted to have a gameplay that would be really HELLA differant depending on ur enemy position... like, u could easily go for tech vs zerg in pvz or things like that, and Z could alwais FE without any problems with his enemy at bot

I think it sorta switchs the map from micro to macro map depending on where players r placed

Btw, tested the tanking from island on my updated teal base, switched mins around.. and theres a lil place behind the mins that is tankable indeed, but as long as ur aware of that, u can play and have no problems from tanks at island :O
modified by FateD
flothefreak
you've got a serious problem with distances on this one. it's either too short which causes some early game balance problems or it's too long which results in overall gameplay flaws.
Lancet
I don't know about the "long" distances but looking at it closer the short distances in the diagonal matchups with those corridors may be a real problem. I don't think you want to make the second gas more vulnerable than it is already in these situations. Place the gas away from the entrance to the corridors, that may help a bit.
FateD
updated the nat's gasses, moved blue a lil so he has a normal starting screen, teal has been turned around, and if i did anything else, im not aware of it XD lol

btw the pic doesnt show updates, better try the map urself :P
modified by FateD

thx for pic update whoever did it :D
modified by FateD
RaDiX
Actually I've left this site, but I check it sometimes... Good map, great to see that people are getting better :)).
FateD
ty :D
FateD
Hmm guys, for the sake of balance, id love if you guys could send replays from my map, it would really be apreaciated

btw radix, idk about the gmc u put, putting the nat there would make it too weak from tanks i think, like they could drop on the edge, or even just seige from the other side of it, and hf :O

I know i need to work on how the main looks so big n has a hole, but so far, i havent fiured what ill do to fix it :O
modified by FateD

and also, thinking to it, ill try to make ovy spots for it now lol
modified by FateD
FateD
I worked pretty hard to do this:
reworked the size of every main
put ovy spot (still a really few of em sry :( )
made the bottom min only more open, like the others
reworked deco at nats

and a good couple other things, but idk if i should update over it, and i cant seem to be able to make a pic to simply post it in the comment... is there any1 i could send the updated version so he just paste it as a comment? ty all :D
Nightmarjoo
The issues I had mentioned are almost all still aparent :(
I can make a pic when the map is more edited :)
(and yes, I dled the newest version and looked in scmdraft).
FateD
no,no nightmar, i didnt upload the update i just did, idk if i should replace the current map or not, bc its so differant :O
LGI
Nice map. I would put 3 walls instead of one, next to the natural expand. It should be wider for sure, so terran line tanks behind it are not so many and mutes should hide somewhere...

Bad placement for min only expands...
FateD
I just dont want the mins only to be used unless its 2v2 pretty much :O

btw nightmar, sent u update ^_^
modified by FateD
FateD
Hey guys? A friend of mine saw map and, (I respect his opinion alot since hes nice, and on Can national team) he said 12 was really a bad spot for zerg and 9 was awesome because of the nat, do you guys see why? :/ I dont get it so much lol
Moebius
I love this map.
FateD
ty :D
FateD
bah, uploaded the update on top of the older 1...

plz dl it n take a look n tell me if it was worth replacing on panschk, bc i still have the older version

PS: dont base urself on pic, see the map for urself on editor if u really care about it ^_^
modified by FateD
Testbug
you changed blue mains size?
why ae the all this unwalkable terrain?

nice, blue nat is bigger now, it was too tight, also teal backdoor was in the rong place :P

nice edits, but what about a new map FateD? you are getting better!

ps: i want Radix back :(
FateD
lol i did a new 1, but no1 noticed it :(

but ok, ima make another :D

thx for pic update lol
modified by FateD
Crackling
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us


ITS MEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FateD
lol crackling, this isnt ur concept :(
you stole testbgu's idea of pimping maps by putting pokemon stuff in em.. not origninal :(

FateD
but i gotta say, ty! ull make my map a motm now !_! lol Xd
ludamad
Complaints about originality aside, I like this map a lot. It's almost like what lost temple WOULD be if Blizzard knew the basics of balance (and made inverted ramps to make everyone's life easier =/)
FateD
lol ty,

ill take that as a compliment lol :)
Testbug
(4)MEW.scx as motm13?
FateD
of course lol
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