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Last update for (2)Covetous : 2008, 04, 01 04:36
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2898 (2)Covetous 128*128Nyx1.2betaground

The map has been rated 60 times and got a total of 72 points
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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (4 elements)


Nyx
Changelog (24/08.)-

-> Removed high center ground in favor of this X design with many ramps. Hoping this will provide several ways to attack and flank your opponent.

-> Added a new set of bridges.

-> Added small ramps to the X shape into each min only expo, hopefully this will help combat attacks from the cliffs if they do occur as well as allow crafty players to send in harass units.

-> Moved min at nats forward a bit to leave space behind for defense/harass.

-> Removed rocky area infront of nat/main.

-> Added one more mineral block to small gas expo, making it 4 total. Remember, these are really only there for Zerg expansion - in my opinion not worth taking for other races, maybe late game?

-> Added reverse ramps to min only.

-> Fixed problem with gas at right nat gas.

-> Map no longer protected, can be opened in
your editor


Changelog (26/08) -

-> Modified the small ramps to the min only expos.

-> Ramps to nat now have 1 mineral block of 25 minerals.

-> Tried to make things a bit prettier, added a ton of doodads and whatnot.

-> Fixed an unbuildable tile.

-> Observer version added.

Changelog (27/08) -

-> Nat gas is now 2k instead of 5k.

-> Removed mineral block at back ramp to nats. Pathing was annoying otherwise.

-> Moved back ramps back slightly.

-> Made minerals and gas a little bit nicer at nats.

Changelog (28/08) -

-> Made NW/SE expo all high ground.

-> Move mineral/gas at NW/SE expo.

-> Left in 1 tile ramps at expo for harass by small units.

Changelog (29/08) -

-> Put mineral back on main back door ramp, value of 10.


modified by Nyx
modified by Nyx
modified by Nyx
Crackling
BOO!
Nyx
You know what would be awesome? If you stopped screwing with my map listing without giving me a reason.

Thanks.
Lancet
WTF? What happened to the map thread of this map? Crackling I know you are still a little kid but this is a very serious breach of your admin powers. How dare you do this to one of our mappers, especially without provocation? Nyx was making all the edits people were suggesting and working hard on his map, what you just did is poison. It is a betrayal of the trust we have placed in you and a betrayal of the principles behind our web-site.

Restore ALL the posts and the right map picture or I will formally request that your admin powers be removed.

Nyx please don't leave, give us some time to resolve this problem.
modified by Lancet
Nyx
I deleted my last map posting because I thought it was my fault that the image was there as I didn't set a password when making it originally, however I remade it and the picture was still changed to this cat.

I hope this can be resolved.
Crackling
you'd just need to ask for me changing it again instead of deleting all the map :/
illisid
haha this is actually quite entertaining to watch. i kinda missed what happened though. was crackling messing with his picture?

your map is decently good in my opinion (cause i dislike using the imo abbreviation) but i dont think im going to play it. there are just too many good maps on this site, and ive only just discovered them.
Crackling
the map is completly BAD lol >.<
its neither playable nor good looking or balanced in any way -_-


PS: only thing i did was replacing his maps pic with this:

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
Crackling
omg omg omg lancet plz dont request it formally :(
Rye
Weren't there a whole bunch of comments here before?
Nyx
The fact still remains that you shouldn't be editing peoples posts for no reason. I wouldn't have even given a shit if you would've done it once, or twice but everytime I changed my picture back you would edit it.

The only reason I deleted the first post is because it didn't have a password, I surely didn't think that a childish mod was editing the pic. Get a life.
Starparty
yea crackling. fuck off and mind your own business. Im sure this wasnt why someone awarded you with admin rights.
Lancet
Crackling really? Think about the first time you posted a map here, would you have liked for someone to do this to you? Also you say his map

"its neither playable nor good looking or balanced in any way"

well shit man tell him WHY you think this is the case and WHAT he can do to fix it. That is at least what admins are supposed to do here.
Nyx
Made some major modifications, check original post for log. Let me know what you think please!
MorroW
might be easy for terran to turtle all his upper side, then they both equal expands and no1 can really take middle cuse it is so risky. 3 and 9 only 3 minerals bairly worth expanding there (in tvp).

also plz some space behind the nat at sideway (for turret place) and behind (for dropping etc)

and u still didnt make a creep colony, i say again. if zerg cant fe he cant win (often) u need to switch place at the mineral blocks or add a creep colony outside the choke and remove the rocky ground (put the colony alittle at side so it doesnt block cannon / bunker space)

atm; T>Z P>Z T>P

and btw this map would look better in space tileset :P
modified by MorroW
Nyx
Yeah, I see what you are saying. I'll try and work on those things.

I did put a Creep Colony at each entrance, you can see it on the picture. Maybe in the wrong space?
modified by Nyx
Nyx
Ok, I made those changes for you MorroW.

I also agree with the space tileset thing, I may try to make this over in that. Things just get going on a single map and you really don't want to make another, at least that is how I feel about this one. It may be a piece of shit but I kind of like it. :(

How could I help stop the turtling?
Lancet
Looks much better but the center may still be a bit tight and favor terran. I can't open your map with my editor. You should place reversed ramps next to the minonlies (see gmcs) because you have an entrance/exit on the other side already.
modified by Lancet
Nyx
Added the ramps.

Map is also unprotected now, so you can open it in your map editor.

Not sure how to expand the middle to help with balance due to the overall size balance of the map, if things get to big it will be very cramped I think. Any suggestions?
Nyx
Are there anymore suggestions on ways to improve this map? I think I may make it final if there aren't any. Please comment.
Nightmarjoo
Not much to say, map is way too weird for me to theory craft / say what I think works and doesn't.

NW/SE is pretty awkward though =/

Dunno how they mine, but the nat minerals are ugly.

The long main2nat distance could be a problem. I can see t having a real headache vs muta.

The min wall on the backdoor ramp is kind of annoying, I think you could remove it without any issues.
Nyx
Thanks, I'll take those things into consideration. How could I go about making the NW/SE expo less awkward?
Nyx
Ok, made some changes. OP updated.

If the NW/SE expos were all higher ground would that improve them any?


modified by Nyx
Crackling
i'd really recommend you to stop working on this map and start a new ones
Nyx
I'm going to agree with you this time, map is final unless some amazing suggestion comes along.
modified by Nyx
Grief_Stricken
i like your sense of humor - some amazing suggestion!! you have alot of basic work to do.and,hell no! you should finish firstly this map before you start with a new one.the db is full of unfinished stuff;what we don't need is a other unfinished map.just some suggestions; i told you last week that everything above the left main/everything beneath the right main,is unfinished.all you changed was to add a mini expo.that's not,even closer,good enough.make an effort and think for yourself how you can fill in a reasonable way that space.it's the half of your map,btw!idk who tells you,but 2 entries for a main are a wrong idea.fix this too.

Nyx
Grief - I would pretty much need to remake the entire map if I wanted to change anything major. As it stands right now there really isn't enough space in-between the main and corner expos to add anything of major significance. I think if I did add anything to those areas it would severely cramp the map and pretty much make it impossible to do anything without going through a major choke.

The one entrance to the main was originally blocked off with a mineral wall, but due to pathing and suggestions by various individuals I removed it. Maybe the two ramps are no longer a good idea and I can remove the back one and put the main one into the nat? Maybe I will do that.

Otherwise I really cannot do much more to the map without completely changing it. It is decorated nicely and it doesn't play half bad eventhough some people here seem to think it would. So, I am going to do a little bit more work on this map while I begin work on another. We'll see what can be done.
modified by Nyx
illisid
i'd just try to find something new to do with the NW/SE expos. that corner could look better and more fun, i think. This map has changed a lot, and im liking it better now, but it still feels unfinished.
Nyx
Ok, I'll get to work on those. I have started to dislike them aswell over the last few days. I just haven't been able to decide what to do with them.
MorroW
yes the creep is in the wrong way, ill GMC

if u fix that, its a ok map, and FINNISHED ^^
modified by MorroW
Nyx
Ok, made those changes MorroW - thanks for the GMC.

I'm going to take a break on the map for a few days and see if I can come up with anything fresh then.
Nightmarjoo
"If the NW/SE expos were all higher ground would that improve them any?"

actually that sounds like a good idea lol
Nyx
Updated with that change. Check OP for full details.

Now I am trying to decide whether or not I should remove back door ramps @ the mains and then move the main ramp into the nat slightly. I liked how they were blocked off with a mineral block originally, and I changed it to 10 just to test but the pathing got to me when I would transfer drones to the nat so I got rid of them.


modified by Nyx
FateD
Hmm.. In Ol' Fatey's opinion, i think your map just lacks a decent middle... and maybe some more deco :P

The nat expo layout is rather cool to me, but could favorise a FE T i think.. w-e

the thing that needs most improvement is surely the tightness of middle to me.. meh

welcome to the site man :p
Nyx
Making the middle any larger seems quite impossible to me, at least if I wanted to keep the same type of high ground ramp formations going. I have tried a few times to make them larger/longer and to make the middle square area larger but it justs looks worse than it already does.

I debated on whether I should make the formations out further and have them as semi-chokes kind of like what is seen on Sin Peaks of Beakdu with the many high grounds with a center spot but it just doesn't seem to go with the flow of the map and not to mention I feel like I am just copying Peaks exactly. I'll see what I can do, generally the center works out pretty well in my testing since it has ramps on all sides where you can tell your units to go up or down. Getting caught in the direct center has been very rare for me.


I updated the map with a ton of doodads and terrain modifications, I think it looks pretty good.

Honestly I don't know if I would change anything else about the map, I am pleased with the new expos and how everything is playing. The center may look rather cramped and problematic from the picture but I honestly haven't had any problems with it in a game. I say give the map a go, it may not be in the new age Korean map style with rotational symmetry and whatnot but I don't think it is unplayable.
modified by Nyx
Lancet
Your "change log" is a great idea! If you have played the map upload some replays. Make the creep show in the pic of your map.

For that go:

units>zerg>buildings>creep colony

and overlay the unit creep colony on top of the sprite creep colony (the creep will show immediately).

Now save an image of your map but DON'T SAVE THE MAP, just close it. The pic you saved will have the creep colony with the creep.
modified by Lancet
Nyx
Pic updated with creep showing.
Lancet
Oh, I had not noticed that you removed the mineral block on the backdoor ramps to the mains. Are you sure you want to do that? its going to be difficult for terran.
Nightmarjoo
nah they're fine, they can just make 7 marines instead of 4
besides, this makes it so much easier for t to reciprocate with a vult to p's backdoor =/
Nyx
I have put the mineral wall back on these ramps.

It has a value of 10, this lets you mine it away later on in the game rather quickly but also lets an enterprising person trying to sneak in the ability to bring 2 peons to mine it out. Honestly this rear ramp has never been a problem for me or anyone that I have played the map with.

It is either this way, or remove the ramps entirely and leave the main ramp in the same location. The map just doesn't work at all if I remove the backdoor and move the main ramp into the nat.
Nyx
I have been playing around with the map a little bit to see if I could come up with anything to help it along.


Enlarge

Anyone have an opinion on these changes? Obviously this is just a quick change, lots of doodads that are left over from the other map - so it looks like complete shit. How about the concept though?




<
modified by Nyx
Lancet
Maybe widen the small ramps in the NW and SE plateaus? The map, for the concept, may be pretty much finished. Just stop messing around with it and either do testing and upload replays or go to make another map.

: ^ )
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