You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
| Grief_Stricken | | | this is it - my new one.this time i tried a more risky concept with a non-macro style,gamewise.i tried to avoid turtle by giving all expos a decent amount of resources;only the minonlies and the safe plateaus have smaller dozens of;but i'm not prepared on any of my maps to allow island resources to decide a game.and with 4 expos + 1minonly + the main resources i guess it's hard to talk about resources shortage;and also like on the most of my maps you have to deserve your resources
| | MorroW | | | gj :)
added a gmc | | spinesheath | | | I like that you actually cared about the gas issue :)
You should test those bridges as main chokes thoroughly, usually bridges are said to be bad as chokes.
Both protoss and zerg will whine about the natural. Imo you shouldn't add a sunken because then z will be able to fe fairly easily while p has much more of an disadvantage.
Oh and in tvp I guess we will see a fast map-split very often. If terran can then push to both corner expoes, he should win the game. | | Grief_Stricken | | | @spinesheath - i guess i know what you mean about the bridges as entraces for mains;on these bri
dges you will need 2 depots + 1 racks to wall successfully.perhaps this will allow p/z to expand quicker.i think it would be risky for a terran to push too early;cause if the other scouts- and a half-decent player always scout - a z/p because of the better mobility would be able to attack harass over the other route.and in the early game you won't have enough units to resist an attack & to engage the other player yourself.ok,a very good t like horror or strelok will try anyway to surprise you,but i'm talking about the average terran.and anyway against a pro
p/z i don't think that even they are weary of life,to push too early.
and i suppose no matter what race you choose - if you can control both corners you will for sure.of course so far you already controls the expos in your own hemisphere;at least nat/6or12/own corner | | LasTCursE | | | | nice :) | | NastyMarine | | | | cool map. reminds me of a noname/arden map. | | Nightmarjoo | | | Even paths + long distances will make gameplay somewhat awkward. A tight middle path like in loki2 would help that a lot imo.
The map is very t>z. There is nothing that helps zerg here. Terran will take the lead in 1base vs 1base play, terran can take and defend his nat easier, muta harass won't be particularly effective, the close but not terribly defensible 3rd gas helps terran a lot and makes it hard for zerg to keep his 3rd gas, and if he wishes, terran can take and hold the island a lot easier than zerg. Usually zerg can delay terran until hive tech comes out, and keep atleast 3gases, and zerg is often pushed into his nat again lategame just before defilers come out. Zerg loses his nat in this map, should the game play out that way, which most decent zvts do. Zerg cannot beat terran with just 2gas that late in the game, especially since terran can easily get a 3rd base at either 6/12 or at the islands. The only way I can see zerg winning is if he either gets lucky with a 1/2hatch lurk rush off of 1base (highly unlikely, and made more unlikely by the long distances, only way it could work is if terran goes around one side and zerg goes around the other, but I can't see a competent terran being that stupid, and even then terran can probably hold it off if he went 3rax, and he will).
Map seems pretty p>t to me. Protoss can comfortably FE like normal, going a more safer 2gate robotics + obs -> nexus. Terran might be able to FE, but he'll have to do some sort of 2fact build. After that, protoss gets a free island, and can safely take his 3rd base too (at 12/6). Terran cannot safely push to any base, so I guess he'll have to take the island, but it'll be hard I think to keep it. At anyrate, even with that 3gas, protoss should have no problem with his 4gas fending it off/delaying for arbiter/carrier thanks to the ridiculously long distances. Thing is, terran can secure 12/6 after a little while, once he can push protoss back with a slow push and then securing the bridge near it, but protoss can easily go around the other way, making it very hard for terran to cover such an enourmous area while protoss can use everything he has at once at one location. The thing that makes the map p>t imo is that terran will just get too spread out. Nothing really is hard on protoss in the map for pvt.
For pvz I don't know. It's kind of close. Zerg should be able to FE like normal, especially with there being basically no threat of a 2gate (thanks to long distances). Protoss will be a bit behind since he has to play 1gate tech (2gate is nullified by distances, and FEing is just impossible thanks to the weird nat), but he should manage ok I think. Lurkers might be a problem, but the long distances should help protoss expo I think. Once he expos and his tech is up, he gets that nice free gas. The spread out layout is normally very hard on protoss, but I think the close island helps balance this, and the spread-outness of the map will be hard on zerg too, once protoss is mobile. But, once zerg gets hive tech (and he should be able to tech quickly thanks to long distances), nyduses will help him a lot. Eh, I guess I'd say the map is z>p, because there really won't be a time where protoss will clearly have the advantage, zerg will always have the opportunity to get ahead. 3hatch muta will be a pain for protoss. Actually, any tech build zerg does should be hard on protoss since he both can't apply early pressure and can't expo very quickly. Also, a wide main choke definitely will make protoss more cautious, because a 2gate is suicide on the map, and 1gate tech will result in few zlots to cover the choke. Because of the distances though, zerg probably won't be doing much with all-in lings, but the possibility of zerg getting some speedlings in will be hard on protoss I think thanks to that choke. I guess protoss will just have to build their gateway in the choke to make it smaller.
In short, the map's weird nat, long distances, and spread-out layout makes gameplay awkard. I'm confident the map is t>z, p>t, and z>p. | | Grief_Stricken | | | spinesheath warned me that p/z will whine about the nat - but this is almoust a funeral march,nmjoo! ooohh, T_T
wasn't you the one that wanna play maps with different constitutions? non-standard elements? and look who's the only one which complain when it happens.right,you.and also you are the only one who's requesting standard elements;a middle like in loki, a standard nat.who's the most afraid about tryin' something new ? how's about adapting,thinking about a new way to play under the new conditions?
actually,your entire comment contains only scenarios.possible,traceable,things that can really happen.but,and this is what you cannnot see,things can evolve also in a different way!your thoughts are
based on the usual "modus operandi".but this map isn't the standard map,with the standard nat,etc;so in conclusion you cannont judge it under the same conditions like a standard map.
also in the meanwhile you should trust me when i arrange a map.do you believe the entire setup is coincidence? it was intended like it is.on each map that i made before you have a "standard"nat;do you really think i can't draft a standard nat if i want so??
you are sooo confident about t>z,and see zerg so weak.,almost helpless.what i see is a double wide bridge as entrance,that t cannot afford not to wall.i see a t that need to ensure it against mass lings,you cannot start to tech as t.that's wishful thinking.and so long t is behind he's wall you can expand as z.on the other hand evry new expo can't be defended so easy,this means for zerg you cannot plan only offensive,cause when t comes out you have to face him.i let it open for evry z to tech whatever he think is more adequate,muta or lurks.it would be always based on what infos you got by scounting.mutas will give you alot more mobility over the map and they will allow you to hurt evry new possible expansion of t.and honestly,the nat and the 6/12 expo aren't so hard to harass with mutas.and don't forget t is a slow race;it won't be so easy for him to control the map,to run the map up and down over 2 large routes.so,i disagree with your t>z theory
i already mention that this should be a non-macro map.because all expos are harder than usually to defend you cannont afford to deal wasteful with your amount of resources.you can't afford to attack reckless your opponent,cause when you loose under stupid circumstances your main army you won't be able to defend succesfully your expansions because of the distances between them.in order to deal with this you will need a good micro;at least to move your armies over the map.you can be sure about the safety of your armies only in the main & the other corners.but doing this will allow the other player to take control over the map - and this is what no serious player can afford.
and all these things doesn't make a game awkward,sooner it will force you to be creative,to do things that you don't usually do on other maps.as ex. in tvz nydus can help z sooner than on other maps because of the distance between the expos.this map is what i consider a challenge.and not to deliever a map that copies well known maps;no matter if it's the design or the way it plays.if your looking for such kind of maps the db is full.don't mind me!!
the only choice you have:adapt or play a well known map.if you wanna test your limits... | | MorroW | | | this reminds me alittle of tau cross, just that muta harass is harder and there are 2 islands and overall fewer expands
maybe u should change mineral formations so muta harass could be better
i think it might be t>z but i could be wrong :) | | Nightmarjoo | | | lol grief why would terran just sit in his main behind a "wall" ? A suffiient wall could easily just be putting his rax halfway in the choke to shrink it down. Even if zerg masses lings (horrible for his economy) terran can move out fine once he has medics, and if he's afraid of mass ling flank he can add some firebats, big deal. Even if zerg expos, he has three entrances to protect from mnm wtf. That's atleast two places he has to prepare a sufficient amount of sunks. You think zerg can so easily afford 5+ sunks with an already late expo? If terran goes 3rax before expo (and I think he will, it helps him be aggressive and allows him best to defend his expo), normally zerg needs 5-8 sunks to properly prevent being run over, and that's at one location where zerg has had 2bases for a considerable amount of time. I fail to see how zerg can fend off a 3rax from two locations, with one location having two entrances for a better flank wtf. Mass ling will do nothing to a 3raxer, once terran gets that critical mass (which will take no time at all with 3rax) I fail to see how zerg can possibly manage fine here without terran making a huge blunder. Zerg is basically required to go lurk first on this map, which won't hurt terran at all, who is perfectly capable of stimming, shooting the burrowing lurk, and backing off. Doesn't even have to waste a comsat scan, though if he wants he can just scan and attack the lurks and kill them. Zerg will have to sit with lurkers for a larger than usual critical mass of lurk before he can even try moving out. But even then I fail to see how zerg can do much without terran making a ridiculous micro blunder.
You accuse me of thinking only in the box and epitome of standardness, which is of course true. I'm thinking, as a competent player, what other competent players are going to do given how they know how to play. You say, players will just have to adapt. Well, I fail to see how zerg can properly adapt to anything terran has, and how terran cannot easily counter this "adaptation". You seem to expect zerg to pull off miracles without thinking about the consequences of such "adaptations". I'm a fucking zerg player. zvt is my best matchup in the game. I know the matchup better than the back of my hand. The only things zerg can possibly do here are really fast tech rushes, but those are very hard on zerg's economy, while terran's counter to them are not hard on his economy, and the long distances make such a tech rush weaker than normal, not to mention they leave zerg very vulnerable to attack, and even if "successful" can really only buy some time for zerg to pull of the next miracle.
The map is very wide, and distances are very long. This alone makes lurkers fairly ineffective. The long distances also make muta hard to use effectively. You already force terran to go 3rax, because he can't 1rax FE, 2rax FE would be do-able, but vulnerable to mass ling rushes (which you expect zerg to do I guess, with your arguments about the wide choke), and 2rax tank rush is silly with the long distances, making 3rax before expo the most viable strategy available, so terran is going to 3rax, which puts a lot of pressure on zerg. Mass ling will delay terran so that zerg can expo, but then he's out of luck once terran moves out. Apparently then he's supposed to mass sunk to cover his main, and the two entrances to the nat, which will cripple his economy, and will do nothing to terran. This allows terran to contain zerg while he expos. Best thing from here zerg can do is try to go around terran with the least guarded path (probably the nat's backdoor), but terran just has to have a bunker or two at his nat to defend that, and his troopbuildup from his barracks will already be there because with the long distances, it is unlikely terran will be constantly reinforcing his army, nor has he any reason to since zerg can't attack the containment force without lurkers, and he has to protect his lurkers with his lings, so terran can reinforce his army once lurkers are out, but the map makes lurkers largeley ineffective / gives terran many opportunities to delay and kill the lurkers while whittling down the ling force. Even with a good economy and 4hatch (very optimistic, given that he butchered his economy to get mass ling, then butchered it again to get mass sunk), he still will not be able to defeat terran without a 3rd gas. But terran's economy will be strong and zerg will not be able to delay his first push at all, because he can't go muta first because his economy is weak and he has to go lurk first just to defend himself, and going muta after lurk is just ridiculous and preposterous vs a competent player, so terran will steamroll the 2gas zerg here. Best zerg can do as I said is try to rush tech (defilers), but he cannot win with defilers thanks to the long distances, only delay, but not delay enough to allow zerg's economy to recover / get a 3rd gas. And even if he is able to sneak that 3rd gas, if he takes 12/6 terran can just roll over him, and if he takes a corner roll over him, and if he takes the island drop him. Zerg's economy will not be able to adequetely defend both himself and the island, but if he tries to defend that island with mass sunk + nydus, terran can just 3dropship drop him, which will be sufficient. That's if zerg is lucky enough to get a 3rd base. Terran can easily outlive zerg with 2base vs 2base, but terran will also be able to expo again easily, and will have the means to defend it. Anything zerg does on this map will be in desperation; terran will be ahead of zerg at all times. t>z | | Testbug | | | | i love you nightmarjoo =) | | Nightmarjoo | | | | I love you too testbug oO | | MorroW | | | hell this is too hardcore :(
when i comment i just write what should be done ^^
still its nice to see such potential just to prove your friend wrong <3 | | Johnny B.Goode | | | I found in the realm a slightly modified version of this map. Was a bit confused because there is only Grief's name as author,and on bwmn it is only the orig. version.
Btw,wtf is this guy at all? | | Nightmarjoo | | | | Grief has only posted a couple times in last month or so. When I commented back asking where he'd been he didn't respond, and I haven't seen a comment from him in a while. He may have pulled an LGI. | | DG)SpoilR | | | So far I know he is abroad for a pactical training since mid August.Idk when he comes back home.
"He may have pulled an LGI." LMAO! Guess not, but for some Life is more than SC | | MorroW | | | "but for some Life is more than SC"
not for the ppl with talent ;)
i have friends still i enjoy sc pretty much the same as beeing with them, and im actually having a great time with them. so plz all maybe relise theres nothing wrong with enjoying the best game ever made.
many ppl are even more social over computer games than real world. as ppl say dont judge ppl apperence or voice that shit. so whats left is what internet too got. just that with this game u got encomment with others is that u love same game meanwhile ur real friends u might just live near each other but doesnt relly fit together in the long run. you loose friends but many played this game 10 years, i havent but i would if i knew about this game earlier. | | Grief_Stricken | | | | on this here some changes too;i will mention only the bridges that geared the left with the right side of the map.previously they have been larger plus now there are these 2 small ones in adition | | Nightmarjoo | | | I don't think it's possible to make good (2)128x128 maps. Everytime I see someone make one, and I write up a really long post, when I think about it almost all of the "problems" in the map originate from the map being too large.
The even pathing makes for awkward gameplay too imo though. Tends to lead to turtley or elimination-race based gameplay, on top of potentially creating legitimate pathing issues. | | Grief_Stricken | | | | dream on... | | Testbug | | | there is some path issue with your minonlies, the units stack with the workers when you try yo move arround.
even if there are no workers, moving near the bridge and the water makes the units stack between the mineral fields.
maybe moving the mineral formations or adding some more water or doodads with help.
and what about adding a Xel Naga Temple to the natural backdoor? that will turn it into a normal map only at the begening | | Grief_Stricken | | | "there is some path issue with your minonlies, the units stack with the workers when you try yo move arround.
even if there are no workers, moving near the bridge and the water makes the units stack between the mineral fields.
maybe moving the mineral formations or adding some more water or doodads with help."
nah-nah; its the old version u talking - before i changed the terrain nearby and add those conical shaped bridges. was indeed a little annoying, yeah
"and what about adding a Xel Naga Temple to the natural backdoor? that will turn it into a normal map only at the begening"
as i finalized the map i asked myself this question too; it was the choice between a block or keep it like it is by now with a particular feature on the nat. for the block version i could choose betweeen the sprite and the mineral version. in the end i decide to keep it so because i think that the long distance will solve the problem. the point is if you are not skilled enough, you shouldnt fe. if you think u have the skill to do - go for it. what i already saw in the reps gives me the feeling i was right to keep it so...
i never cared about the mainstream | | LasTCursE | | | | bridge for enterance ? o.O | | Grief_Stricken | | | | sure why not | | testbug | | | yeah i noticed the half bridges, or conical bridges, but it doesn's fells to have solve the problem at the normal sized bridge at a 100%.
it's a lot better now, and if you stack your own units with the minonly expansion, then it's your own fault, i understand...
and what0s wrong lastburse? bridges are unbuildable like ramps, and you can this main choke is tigher than longinus main entrance. | | Freakling | | | | What's up with these random bumps?! |
| Replays
- - E]z-UnrealNoob vs  4example(1on1, 1.16)
--QEd)RE vs Thuy(1on1, 1.16)
--QEd)RE vs i_shaLL_kiLL_U(1on1, 1.16)
--Die_mond vs DapixX(1on1, 1.16)
-- Rsx vs RickRolling(1on1, 1.16)
--Qed_Bisu vs resinfingers(1on1, 1.16)
--Qed_Bisu vs WWB(1on1, 1.16)
--I(illerAssAssIn vs DapixX(1on1, 1.16)
--SKY.TeRRan vs choijh(1on1, 1.16)
--aG.Garty vs aG.Whom(1on1, 1.16)
--aG.Garty vs aG.Whom(1on1, 1.16)
--SCC-Faust vs Perfect[E](1on1, 1.16)
--SCC-Tpb vs Olympus(1on1, 1.16)
--vazze vs choijh(1on1, 1.16)
--I)ats vs ki)control(1on1, 1.16)
--Fate[9]Night vs xTetx(1on1, 1.16)
--NeO)CrushyPoo vs Truean(1on1, 1.16)
--DreAmiN vs exitiabilis(1on1, 1.16)
--uC)RemindMe vs 25)ice(1on1, 1.16)
--uC)RemindMe vs 25)ice(1on1, 1.16)
--Lyrikus]B[s vs Serespiro(1on1, 1.16)
--Sky.Korean vs HilariouS(1on1, 1.16)
--aG.Whom vs Div(OD)(1on1, 1.16)
--suicide)res vs kachu(1on1, 1.16)
--SH-Thanatos vs suicide)res(1on1, 1.16)
--RedW4rr10r vs vazze(1on1, 1.16)
--hAzE[xGk] vs mouthhugs(1on1, 1.16)
--prusha vs SilliestGoosE(1on1, 1.16)
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