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Last update for (4)Winter Bliss : 2008, 07, 01 13:57
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3130 (4)Winter Bliss 128*128jeb0.5betaground

The map has been rated 57 times and got a total of 30 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


jeb
Hello, I'm looking for feedback on this map, mainly about race balance and if it's playable or not. I used the ice tileset because none of the current iccup maps seem to use it, but half-ways through i realized I'm not so fond of it... :)

The "protected natural" has a neutral building blocking the kitchen entrance. Unfortunately this messes up some path-finding, and the computer AI doesn't realize how to attack properly in the north/south direction.
jeb
Hehe, somebody gave me a 0 rating. I'm looking for feedback so I can improve, please tell me what the problem was :)
Nightmarjoo
Mineral formations are bad.

East vs West is very linear.

Pathing in general is not very good, and I don't mean the neutral, but that doesn't help it. Pathing is just very linear. The biggest causer of this is that you completely mirrored the map with x, y, and f(-x) = -f(x) symmetry. The min only nats are way too close to eachother as result. This concept would turn out a lot nicer if you used rotational symmetry, but it's not easy to pull off.

The clutter in the middle is unnecessary.

The path leading to the nat with gas is very tight and awkward, use a ramp facing a different direction to help this, eg. a ramp facing down-left for purple.

The min only nat could be better shaped/structured.

The islands could use more space.

Snow is hard on the eyes, try to use less snow. Overall decoration could be better, including your many straight edges (which should be more curved, for a more natural look, which just looks better in general).

I don't like the paths at 3/9 around the islands. I think you'd be better off by flooding them. Since water won't touch those cliffs without massive tile editing, I suggest replacing the water with ice, which'll allow the islands and those 3rd gas bases to be more fairly harassed.

The double entrance could be pretty easily exploited and abused. Its existance makes FE gameplay ("normal" gameplay now) hard and/or awkward. I think you'd be fine by simply removing it and leaving the nat with gas as a backdoor expo.

The map would be a lot better if the concept was executed in rotational symmetry. My only suggestions outside of remake the map in rotational symmetry, would be to remove the neutral entrance, restructure the main/nat/backdoor expo so that pathing leads more towards the center than to another player. Throw a neutral onto the path leading to the cliff overseeing the nats Andromeda style. Remove clutter in the middle and whatnot. Replace mineral formations with that of pro maps.
Nightmarjoo
Also, ignore the map rating, it basically means nothing.
jeb
Cool thanks

I actually made it a mirrored map on purpose, because I prefer how Andromeda exposes horizontal/vertical players to the same openings, compared to, for example, Katrina and Othello. However, it didn't turn out so good, just like you say.

I'll try to make a better map, and use a different tileset.

I have another question, if you don't mind... I played Andromeda the other day with a friend and ended up with massive map control and started building cannons outside his entrance. It was then I discovered that it's not possible to build in the middle of Andromeda (the area between the mains' exits and up to the center expo), even though it's the default walkable tileset. My question is obviously, "why?" What's the gosu background to prevent middle buildings? Does it favor certain strategies?

Thanks again for spending your time on writing the map critique :)
SiaBBo
Mains are very easy to defend with tanks. ;o
Whole map is pretty tight.

Minerals looks ugly. When you are making expos use every chunk, not just one what you did.
Nightmarjoo
In Andromeda, much of the middle is actually solar panel not normal platform. The area around the solar panels is not buildable.

Preventing building in the middle lessens the ability of players to use proxy buildings or hide tech away from their base, essentially forcing games to be more standard. Also, in tvp, terran often builds turrets in the middle of the map as he "pushes" towards protoss. He does this because goons can shoot mines if observers are nearby making them less effective, and because protoss always uses shuttles with zlots inside to drop on tanks to drag mines towards them, force tanks in back to shoot the zlots to damage tanks, and to just get more units in the middle of terran's army; turrets shoot shuttles down. Essentially, you make it much harder for terran by making most of the ground unbuildable in the middle.
spinesheath
What looked like normal platform to you, jeb, actually is not normal platform. Andromeda has lots of copy-pasted small parts of solar panel which look almost like platform. But if you look closely, you can see small, dark, diagonal lines which tell you that this actually is solar panels. If I remember correctly, the whole middle is made unbuildable that way (except for where normal solar array is used of course).
Nightmarjoo
or that :)
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