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Last update for (4)Voices IV : 2018, 10, 05 08:53
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3170 (4)Voices IV 128*128Testbug (scrath:crackie, idea:TkTkVrooM)5.3leagueground

The map has been rated 44 times and got a total of 233 points
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Melee

Observer

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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Testbug
i copy/pasted asphalt from badlands to twilight and this is what i got.
i replaced the islands with normal multies.
the map looks ugly, i may open acompetition for "voices iv center" of maybe just copy a middle from mapdori as crackling does.
NastyMarine
I'm not a fan of the middle decoration choice and set up but i suppose it works. I like the direction this map has underwent. But I say that this all could have just been put into one map instead of 4. dont you think?

I like the nat being sunken ground. it adds more dimension to the map imo.
Nightmarjoo
Yeah I think the middle is ugly, but it felt ok in game. Overall I like the modifications, 3/9 being not island makes me sad, but it really helps the flow of the map. Hey testbug, what about making the mineral blocks 32? 48 felt like too much imo. Main2nat is a bit long, and nat2nat is a bit short still, but I think it's ok.
SiaBBo
Tanks FTW!!

And protoss FE vs zerg will be huge problem.
modified by SiaBBo
Crackling
can i get my adminrights back so i can edit siabbos comments? ;_;

well done testbug :)

center not that nice (at least on the pic), nats to open.

i also think it need some other kind of setup at 3,6,9,12... not sure yet which.
modified by Crackling
(:
now i like everything except the middle :)
the high dirt in the middle looks very square and bad, u should fill them and make unwalkable doodads on top of them and doodads at the sides etc
the bridge terrain might look good from the picture but have u seen them ingame? i havent im just suspecting it wont look good at all :(

are the nat to nat distances too short? this might favour terran alot. i dont know i havent tested :)

btw i think siabbos comment makes alot of sense.

and just a small idea. if map name is voices maybe u could do tones in middle by that mud :P would be easier to remmeber the map then also :)
(:
when i opened the map in editor the bridge middle had some unwalkable spots┐
Testbug
yes, there are some unwalkable tiles, but ingame i didn't notice that. also, it looks bad in the pic but it's okay ingame.

this middle won't be the final, i just dame some crazy thing to start testing the map.
i'll open a "voices iv center decorations" competition, or i may just copy a middle from mapdori xD

i see you haven't watch the replays :(
tanks can't hit the nats
spinesheath
If you didn't notice the unwalkable spots ingame I suppose you didn't move 24 goons or so? There are some spots where I am certain that their pathing will seriously fuck up.

Imo it also looks bad ingame, and I guess it could look much better (given that normal bridges aren's blocky EVERYWHERE). I also doubt that you need those tiles with the unwalkable spots.
The HighDirt to SunkenPit and Basilica to SunkenPit blends aren't all that great either :(
Testbug
i moved 3 groups of 12 units.
and there were lots of dragoons.

i already fixed the asphalt! no more unwalkable spots!! :D
do you wkno where can i find better sunken ground blends?
SiaBBo

"btw i think siabbos comment makes alot of sense."'

Thank you.
Testbug
SiaBBo read the replays descriptions, they say "testing protoss FE".

okay now i copied python main formations.
and minblocks are 32 now
modified by Testbug
SiaBBo
Sorry, its not my first thing when i come here just go look replays descriptions.
SiaBBo
But some things again. Look orange's natural. There is unbuildable tile.

What i mean "Tanks FTW" You can tank main. You can tank natural. And even minonly is tankable. No, sorry only yellow's.

It is still hard to terran vs protoss in early game.
Testbug
thank you, fixed the orange nat unwalkble sunken ground AND crused rock near the wide ramp.
i already said natural is not tankable from minonly.
and you can't attack too many things from the 12/6, 3/9 multies. look at normal maps with highground mains, you can attack some thing from outside (python, loginus, reverse temple)

because this map wasn't very terran friendly, now the nats are tankable from the basilica.
and there are no more islands.
trcc
How long did it take you to make the middle patern omg! So many tiles.. !!
PsychoTemplar
Looks terribly unfair for any Zerg trying to defend their natural's gas... Securing a third gas looks like a problem too.
anotak
is it too easy to siege the mains' buildings from those various 3rd expos?
LasTCursE
when will "Voices XXV" come out :D:D:D
SiaBBo
I dont know :D:D:D
Testbug
that's why the various 3rd gass expos has a wide basilica wall.
in a normal map, if the main is in highground you can tank everything with your e-bay (python, zodiac, longinus, lost temple)
here tanks can't be placed that near.
maybe voices V or voices VI won't have this problem
djdolber
We did a playtest today 6/8-08 on this, really cool layout.. Replay uploaded
Testbug
wow i found an ilegal doodad at southern highground in the middle.
THANKS FOR TESTING!
NastyMarine
umm why are the inverted sunken ramps different in terms of direction they face? You definitely have to fix that
Nightmarjoo
What?
Testbug
huh? i don't know :S
can you plase explain NastyMarine??
ProTosS4EveR
he wants a cookie
MorroW
have u tested the position down right if u can block vs zealots? it looks somewhat possible for zealot to slip through the rax at left side

and the down left position seems to have a much safer gas nat than the other, lurkers dont seems to reach over that.

and at the 12/6 positon. seems to have some kind of hole in the wall where tanks can move in and attack very far into white/greens mains. this can effect tvt alot.

u should fix around with the nats mineral formations so u can put turrets easier without making scvs stuck. since u cant place turrets behind very well just like othello. but othello had high ground behind.
btw i took another look now at the nats, the space behind is really different at all postions. you must won in the mineral formations and the terrain behind.

and at oranges down left position seems to have an extra hole behind the nat that other positons dont have. this can effect tank gameplay alot.

around the high dirt to sunken ground custom terrain maybe u could place some sprites to make it look better.

yellows position with minerals seems to be more moved out (3hex behind) than other positions. this will effect the prtooss and terran base scouting and terrans building placements.

behind yellows min-only is pathing much harder than other postions that actually got 2 gaps to get behind (yellow got only 1).

at side of yellows min-only theres a tank hole that i think u should make unwalkable or something. this might not effect gameplay so much but its about perfection and positional balancing.

and just for positional balance. the down left position got "null terrain" corner by default. u should put an unbuildable doodad in the other corners to make this more balanced.

and now were at my last thing. seems to need different amounts of pylons to block different mains from vultures.

this map seems very nice except for the things i mentioned. hope you can fix it all.
ProTosS4EveR
seems, looks, possible...
BE SURE! TEST IT!!1
Nightmarjoo
Yeah, SE has the most room behind their minerals, and NW has the least room behind his minerals, the other two are equal.

NE main does have three tiles behind it while the others have two.

The formations are different for all nats/mains.

Yeah the tank hole thing in 12/6 could be annoying because of the shape of NW and SE mains.
NastyMarine
The Sunken inverted ramps are not mirrored correctly (tile wise). That is a big issue in terms of positional balance don't you think?
Nightmarjoo
"The Sunken inverted ramps are not mirrored correctly" I don't see that :O
NastyMarine
open it up in staredit. Look foreal.
Nightmarjoo
I did.
testbug
THANKX MORROW!!
i'll take a look at all those issues.

except:
"behind yellows min-only is pathing much harder than other postions that actually got 2 gaps to get behind (yellow got only 1)"

you can't build anything behind the minonly fields :s the "other positions" ate in the edge of the map (yellow just has unwalkable low dirt)

i don't know what is NastyMarine trying to say.
but maybe the fact that the right-to-left ramp is not using the same tiles of the left-to-right ramp.

maybe both ramps should be the same.
Nightmarjoo
Does it make a difference?
NastyMarine
um they definitely should.

1. Players can complain they have to get used to too many different tiles (when positioning units on ramp).

2. Its more professional.

3.Dont we strive for best?
MorroW
"except:
"behind yellows min-only is pathing much harder than other postions that actually got 2 gaps to get behind (yellow got only 1)"

you can't build anything behind the minonly fields :s the "other positions" ate in the edge of the map (yellow just has unwalkable low dirt)"

these things arent too big but i try mention everything that might be imbalanced. imagine a terran marine drop behind there vs zerg and compare to other positions. i know its alittle unrealistic with that beeing a min-only and so on but it wouldnt hurt to put some "rectangular" 1x2 high dirt next to it and move the mineral alittle. but its your choise i just try to help :)
Testbug
hmm, okay you both are right.
Crackling
This post is not displayed due to its content
Testbug
what? i never uploaded the obs version.
maybe it was nightmarjoo.

okay i fixed some of the things MorroW listed (i'm not sure if i finished at all) is there anything i should change?
modified by Testbug

can some1 download the melee map and make an obs version?
modified by Testbug
MorroW
definatly much better

why dont u fix obs ver ur self? :P
Testbug
Nightmarjoo made the observer version (tridders looked okay to me, and i couldn't find the problem.) now i think he has fixed that.
IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE I SHOULD EDIT???
Testbug
uploaded as Final version
Nightmarjoo
Uploaded my rushed modification for convenience.
testbug
please joel send me the older versions using rapid share or something so i can download scmdraft and fix the bugs.
Nightmarjoo
I uploaded the older version of (4)Voices IV(o) to (4)Voices II thread.
Nightmarjoo
Beater/Wings, any thoughts about the map?
Nightmarjoo
Added doodads around the the crushed rock past the nat to prevent lurkers from raping the nat.
Beater
Yeah I have some thoughts.

First off all, I really like this map! it's a very solid layout and it supports a wide arrange of playstyles, which is the hallmark of a great map IMO.

In all of the PvTs me and wings played the protoss player won, which I don't quite understand since the map has a lot of terran friendly features, such as a cliffable natural (I didn't realise this at first), big obstructions in the middle, pretty short distance between mains and highground overlooking the natural, which makes 2 fac rushes really dangerous.

I'm glad that you can wall pretty easily (you don't have to be smart to do it).

The biggest problem so far with this map is that fast expanding PvZ seems close to impossible without setting you far behind. This is of course because of the easily abusable back-entrance which is very hard to prevent the zerg from mining, and so far I haven't been able to come up with a proper way to deal with an overpool -> gas opening by the zerg.
It's possible to position a cannon in such a way that it can reach the mineral while a probe provides cover, but it's horribly out of position and as a result you'll need about 4 cannons to be truly safe against an overpool.

ZvT you also seemed forced to 3 hatch since you need to be able to put up a sunk or two to prevent an scv to mine out the mineral block.

is it possible to use a probe to push a unit, such as a DT, through the mineral block? That'd be sick
modified by Beater
Beater
2 things:

1: You took out the cliffs? Boo! I liked the cliffs!

2: It's possible to nudge a DT through the mineral block, but it's really hard and I had to use 2 probes + a warping pylon in order for it to work. But it's possible!
jeb
Re: Beater #2:

If somebody did that during a game that would be gosu! :D
Seal
nice map
but i see nothing special
neobowman
Have even glimpsed the first page of this site?
Nightmarjoo
"Re: Beater #2:

If somebody did that during a game that would be gosu! :D" agreed.

The mineral block is 48 now, sounds like you were using a slightly outdated version. Zerg cannot afford to bring 6 drones to mine out the block.

If the cliffs were to stay, they'd have to be bigger, and I wouldn't want to cramp the 3rd gas expo at all. I don't think they're necessary or even helpful.
Nightmarjoo
Oh but, thanks for playing the map and giving us replays and feedback :) If you notice anything else while playing don't hesitate to speak up and we'll get right on it.
testbug
nats aren't cliffable anymore, and chokes are a little smaller.
thanks joel for the obs version
tktkvroom
wow its cool thinking this map came from my concept. u did a gj testy
coV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JamhLJuULpk
neobowman
Yes, we used this map for the sc2gg weekly tourny. Spinel Valley will be used next.
triller1
not bad


  
6
Replays


--Nightmarjoo vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
--Nightmarjoo vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
--Testbug vs Nightmarjoo(1on1, 1.15)
--Nightmarjoo vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
--Nightmarjoo vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
--Shomei vs Monokeros(1on1, 1.15)
--prOxi.Beater vs prOxi.Wings(1on1, 1.15)
--prOxi.Beater vs prOxi.Wings(1on1, 1.15)
--prOxi.Beater vs prOxi.Wings(1on1, 1.15)
--prOxi.Beater vs prOxi.Wings(1on1, 1.15)
--prOxi.Beater vs prOxi.Wings(1on1, 1.15)
--PsychoTemplar vs Morrow(1on1, 1.15)

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