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Last update for (4)Enarey 1.3 : 2009, 06, 11 09:59
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3539 (4)Enarey 1.3 128*128MorroW1.1leagueground

The map has been rated 37 times and got a total of 42 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


MorroW
ok so i desided to dig up the scmdraft and make another map ^^

i know it sucks but i made it alot just for fun

any comments are welcome (but nightmarjos ^^ just kidding)
MorroW
anyhow there are only 8 minerals in main calling for low econ and in pvz even lower econ since there is neutral building in the way.

basicly good for open with pool before hatch then and anything besides nexus first would be nice :P

its kind of experimental so id be surprised if it turned out good xD
sTY_leZerG-eX
I like it but its to flat i think you should do something original with the extra space. the middle i like but that rocky muddy part uh do something inovating with it because its 2 standard.
MorroW
yea i thought exactly same, i couldnt come up with anything good so far so i left it like this so ppl can think :D
sTY_leZerG-eX
I think some high dirt or original bridges , or if you want to get crazy some + newtral bildings should do the trick. Any of these should do the trick :)
SiaBBo
Looks very boring.
MorroW
yaay missed siabbos comments ^^

Please tell me more!
ProTosS4EveR
i'd make a wall'in on lowground just in front of the ramp
and nothing else
SiaBBo
I'm sorry. I'm not gonna make huge comment if I think already map is boring. I even can't do real comment about this map cuz it's so normal/boring.
Testbug
you think this map is normal???
lol SiaBBo, Arkanoid is more normal than this!!!!

look at the main backdoor! and the unFEable nats!
NastyMarine
very interesting set up you got there. I like it. Is it plausible?
ProTosS4EveR
didn't realized the nat is blocked
i'd make wall-ins like that




However, i don't know how zerg can block the lowground in front of the ramp
please morrow, make some highground in the middle, it's soooooooooooooo flat! Dx
testbug
ProTosS4EveR have you ever played PvZ???

you are going for a forge+cannon open, but, without a nexus??? okay, you'll block the choke with pylon and cannon, but where are you going to place the nexus??? the nat is in the other side!

you can kill young crystalis with probes and nat's cannons with no problem, so just place the pylon+forge outside!
ProTosS4EveR
oh, then there is no more problem for fast expand for protoss
neobowman
Then does that mean Zerg can just go 3 hatch before pool every time on this map?
testbug
lol 3 hatch before pool vs a no-fe protoss??
that's suicide!
Freakling
Not if p spends all his resources on a cannon wallin :P
ProTosS4EveR
but he will scout and see that zerg isn't making lings, so he make zeals
neobowman
But if he is FEing, it's easy to defend because of late gateway.
manbearpig
i may be missing somthing but wouldent the building placement on this map for an FEing protoss be rediculus and next to impossible/ impossible to even meagerly defended like 6 speedlings, so wouldent 2 gate or some variation be the most viable choice on the map making three hatch before pool kind of retarded?
MorroW
what u guys thing of 4 athena expoes in middle?

basically in this map zerg will always pool first just to kill the zerg building. and in zvt zerg will hatch by the gas and so he still can get up his sunken

and what p can do is either play 1base or he can send out probes early on and kill zerg building (it got really little hp and no armor i think, so its not really big econ loss)

pretty much same idea as in colosseum where t must send out scvs to kill the sunken in every game. its jsut some econ calkulated stuff were talking about here.

ty for the pictures p4ever ill have a look at it to see if i can get more positional balance

3hatch before pool when neutral buildings in the way? what r u talking about :D
MorroW
wow looks like a total ripoff on athena now XD
Freakling
From the picture it looks like it is more difficult on NE & SW Nats to defend with sunkens. Might be only an optical illusion because of the terrain perspective though...
Seal
"looks" like 4-player athena now
ProTosS4EveR
it's good for me, large middle, lot of flank room
i'll probably vote for this map in next motm
MorroW
Seal if ur serious, your clearly missing skillz in ur head because ull need different gameplay on this map compared to athena. the timing pushes will be compleatly different its 1 less mineral in main AND natural like in carthage. and not to mention those neutral zerg buildings. its actually totally different gameplay from athena

in next update i will fix so the jungle is unbuildable, else terran hard pushes might be too strong :]
ProTosS4EveR
seal, change raised jungle into highground in your mind, is it still athena?
You have to think this way: buildable terrain, unbuildable terrain, highground, low ground, water(don't hide terrain behind them), mountains(hide terrain behind them)
you have to erase deco from your mind(mud, grass...)
modified by ProTosS4EveR
MorroW
im gonna go ahead and brag now. im very happy with results and ty for backup ppl i love this map v good map. you just gotta learn how to open at it before u say its imba cuse cant fe.
its same as when i started colosseum i lost to maybe 5 sunken rushes before i relised a bo that was optimal
sTY_leZerG-eX
There we go now finally you have done something with the middle like i suggested since the beginning lol it took you a while.Now the map looks a lot better.
SiaBBo
Athena clone!
ProTosS4EveR
lt clone -.-
MorroW
you funny guys, if i get some gosu reps on this will you watch them?
Nightmarjoo
Aren't the nats pretty far from the choke?
manbearpig
i rather like the look at it now that the little squares of water are gone they looked kinda out of placeish but the high jungle with minonlys fits perfectly imo
semener
siabbo thats what i was going to say 4 player athena
semener
siabbo thats what i was going to say 4 player athena
neobowman
It would be a 4 player Athena if there were highground gas expos behind the current 3rd gas.
MorroW
well you guys are clearly still newbs, ima go inactive again and come back once u see difference of whats important in a map
ProTosS4EveR
morrow, do some showmatch with this map on gg.net :>
i'll look replays
modified by ProTosS4EveR
testbug
what about normal high cliff with normal ramps instead of athena expos with athena ramps?
ProTosS4EveR
then ppl will not think it is athna clone but yellow clone(even if it's absolutly not) :>
Freakling
I realized just now that those jungle ramps are really blocky/badly blended/unfinished(?)
Excalibur
Morrow,
I made your jungle ramps not suck anymore. :D
Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket



Edited map is here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?2zm4thjxylj
Nightmarjoo
Enarey appears to be winning 2nd place motm 3. If I ever get around to posting it, unless Morrow states his objection here with some good reasoning, I'll be using Excalibur's version.
freakling
Well...
Excalibur's version looks better...
But it is still not playable, let alone MOTM-votable.
That the crysalises do not work should be considered a serious bug.
Maybe some one with admin rights can do a quick update wherein he places the correct unit sprites(?)
modified by freakling
Nightmarjoo
Are you kidding? Fixing the chrysalises is a 5 second edit, that's no problem at all. I'll fix it myself whenever I get to posting motm3.

Deciding it's not playable and not motm-votable is a personal opinion which is irrelevant here. If I had it my way, we'd only ever post Testbug maps as motm. This map isn't terrible imo, though it's definitely far from being an iccup map. My point is, if we only posted good maps as motm, we wouldn't have nearly as many motms. So we're stuck with what we have rather than what we want. Since your map is going to beat it anyway though I don't see why you care.
Excalibur
I'm just glad I could be of some help.
Freakling
You are absolutely right. It is two minutes of editing. I would do it myself and upload it here, if I could.

And I did not say the map is of bad quality.

My point was that a map that might become MOTM should have no major bugs.
I am not talking about imballances of any kind, bad deco or controversial elements, even Testbug's maps need updates, but merely about thinks that do not work as they are designated to work, such as the crysalises that are meant to block the expansions and thus delay fe builds.

If it becomes MOTM (or 2nd place, or 3rd...) it will be presented on the news site and people will possibly see it, download it and want to play it. And maybe those people do not have SCMDraft to do a 2 minute edit on their own and just expect to get a working map to download...
Nightmarjoo
I already said I'd fix it before the newspost was made.
freakling
:)

I take your word for it.
MorroW
------------------
update 1.1
------------------
used some of exalibur tiles to fix around but edited them some for balancing and stuff (factory placement and shit)

fixed chokes walling

fixed some rocks to make it slightly less terran favourable

rezied mains alittle

fixed mineral lines

pushed the 3rd gasses with it and opened them up slightly.

fixed the neutral buildings

removed neutral buildings at gas expo
------------------

ok i need sombody to help me with decoration, i would also like sombody to make it impossible to build turrets between the ruins and the raised jungle in the middle.
i would also like feedback on how i can make this map less terran-favouring without ruining the concept.

tnx for all backup :)
Excalibur
Good to see the terrain nice and blended. :)
Edit:
Im working on the ruin/raised jungle unbuildable stuff right now. :)
modified by Excalibur
MorroW
as i mentioned above this is what i want sombody to do for me (cause im not very good with this stuff) and would like some help. as u fix deco and fix this just like in athena 2.0 u can add urself in credits in the description right under my name there :p



also its good if u let me know before u start with this by PM or just post it here so there arent 5 chefs on same soup if u catch my drift
MorroW
basically i NEED to have it unbuildable else terran is overpowered and i promise you that.

my point being im not just ripping off athena here but my real point is that this is for balance causes.

besides there r many maps with this kinda thing and the kespa guys dont do it just for fun its all balance and concept even if its not visual
modified by MorroW
Excalibur
No problem, working on it.
MorroW
really awesome!

btw joel (nightmarjoo (that homosexual guy :D)) i read here at http://www.ansadi.com/ the news how of some of these maps will promote etc. if u could request this map it would be really awesome. tnx and keep up the good work for BWM!( dont ask my why i didnt PM )
modified by MorroW
Excalibur
Image:




Map: http://www.mediafire.com/?nzfnmgz1qjz

Enjoy.
modified by Nightmarjoo
MorroW
im sorry man but thats not what i meant at all...

it should be unbuildable but it should also look good. open athena then it looks realistic here is just ruins with circle then 1 tile of jungle in it.

shouldnt be a circle of ruins it should just be dirt and jungle that got fked tiles so u cant build.

man t.t

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/190_Athena%202.jpg

see?
thats how its supposed to look...

ty for putting effort tho but u gotta aim before u shoot

ill try fix this myself :X
modified by MorroW
modified by MorroW
Excalibur
Looks well enough to me, I like it better than Athena's way of doing it. The main problem is your passages behind the raised jungle is a lot smaller.

Anyway, good luck with it.
MorroW
------------------
update 1.3
------------------
pushed 3rd gas away from the cliff to unallow terran to exp by tankcliff defense as easy.

added eggwall in the hole with mineral patch to allow toss option of 1base play also harder for a vulture runby and some other balance reasons.

added a eggwall behind the natural for experimental play but this shouldnt effect alot on the gameplay at all.

the athena ramp on the offence side is wider to make it harder for terran to secure 3rd and 4th base.

made it alittle bit wider and more open at the 3rd gas area causing harder to secure 3rd gas and easier flank room for zerg

so overall this update made map better for pvz and pvt. the tvz shouldnt be changed too much

i think this map is reaching its end of balance fixing now and i cant wait to see it in some games, played a few but it didnt really say alot about the map more than it was too easy for terran to turtle.
------------------
update 1.2
------------------
made middle unbuildable

------------------
update 1.1
------------------
used some of exalibur tiles to fix around but edited them some for balancing and stuff (factory placement and shit)

fixed chokes walling

fixed some rocks to make it slightly less terran favourable

rezied mains alittle

fixed mineral lines

pushed the 3rd gasses with it and opened them up slightly.

fixed the neutral buildings

removed neutral buildings at gas expo
------------------
modified by MorroW
modified by MorroW
Excalibur
I liked the concept before all the eggs and bullshit. But whatever, your map. =/
testbug
motm for sure
freakling
Great updat :)

Now that you have an egg wall backdoor I can remove mine in Everflow :P (since it is not creative anymore but mainstream ;P)
Nightmarjoo
I don't know if I like the egg walls. I don't think I do ._.
Nightmarjoo
New iccup map.
MorroW
o yeaaa
o yeaa

xd
MorroW
i wonder what my opponents feel about me using my own map in cws
8D
ProTosS4EveR
it must be funny ^^
i'll try to have some games on texcoco ( with my D- level :s )
SiaBBo
This post is not displayed due to its content
ProTosS4EveR
This post is not displayed due to its content
SiaBBo
This post is not displayed due to its content
MorroW
This post is not displayed due to its content
sTY_leZerG-eX
LOL I'm sure some 1 is going 2 :
"This comment is not displayed due to its content"
But nice comeback.
Nightmarjoo
Siabbo there's a difference between commenting a map and commenting on a mapper. You really oughtn't say that Morrow sucks at mapping, when your own maps are far far worse, and have far more glaring gameplay issues, which will matter in every single game.
This is an unfortunate and regrettable positional imbalance, but not one imo that is terribly significant in that it's not likely to effect 99% of the games on it. I'd actually be fairly surprised if this imbalance made the difference in a game between competent players.
Also, I do agree with Morrow that such a feature wasn't tested for because not only is it highly unlikely to matter in a game where players try to abuse it, it's even less likely that the players would give it any care in the world anyway.

Also, yes, moderation ensues tt
SiaBBo
So when you play this map you don't wanna tank your opponent's base? Think about push with mass tanks, you put one tank so you can kill probes and other tanks will own the whole base. Sounds fair and tactic that no one uses?

And why you just don't add doodad there cuz you clearly did that on purple's main.
modified by SiaBBo
trcc
The middle could be better decowise. I think the middle could really benefit from removing all the grass and just keeping the ruin and make a nice stylish thing. It would contrast with the raised jungle or maybe not.. just seems the grass does not belong there to me.
modified by trcc
Nightmarjoo
I fixed your picture. Next time, don't name it "3".
MorroW
alright ill go with 4
LasTCursE
MorroW i remember that you did something with the fog of war and the map was revealed when the game starts. can you tell me how to do it pls :[
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