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Last update for (4)1015 : 2009, 08, 26 23:10
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3628 (4)1015 128*128MorroW1.7betaground

The map has been rated 35 times and got a total of 59 points
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Comments:   GMCS (2 elements)


MorroW
as u may see its just beta ver :P

1rax1supply wallin works

and 1rax1fac wallin works (tvz mech build)
Crimson)S(hadow
thats a strange concept, your nat is ez to take but its reverse.. why are those gas expos covered with balisca?
MorroW
cause it looks awesome ^^

the "high balisca" is actually the exact same height level as the high dirt (like raised jungle)

the name 1015 u might wonder why i chose that its actually a protoss build for massgoon rush vs terran and that should be really good at this map :P
modified by MorroW
sTY_leZerG-eX
The map looks cool but I'm not sure if it will work.
(Revers Katrina)
Make the ramp much bigger.If you don't the map will have many problems.You can get contained and it will be so hard to break , think Z vs P 5 lurkers spread out with overlords and scourges, In that small choke you are dead.Similar situation Z vs T 2 hatch lurks , then get spire and you have the high ground terran will have to get tanks and hes push will be so slow, and by that time zerg can get defilers , or once terran has many tanks switch teck to guardians.Same ,terran can do something similar to Toss or zerg.
The map is good , just get a much bigger ramp , and make 11oclock and 5oclock expos better.
and will go frome there.
LasTCursE
how to lock maps :?
MorroW
p cannon up in the natural pal, gonna fix some neutral building or some stuff like that so hydras wont imba out toss in midgame

and in tvz u pretty much wont get contained like that if its high level tvz trust me rofl

how u mean make 5 and 11 better?


LasTCursE


modified by LasTCursE
spinesheath
You should think before posting, Lastcurse. The map obviously is only exectued partially as of yet; the concept already is easy to see already.
sTY_leZerG-eX
It wont happen in high levels?
To trust u on that 1?
Lurk contain and tank contain with Goliath or M&M happen all the time in pro games and all levels.
It is easy to fix tho make ramps bigger.
Don't get me wrong tho I like the map
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
LasTCursE
purple is too drunk from the vacation and moved away in the corner instead of his normal position
modified by LasTCursE
Testbug
sinde RaDiX is not here and LastCursE grew up, i'll have to do it:

"OG MORROW I FOUND A BUT IN YOUR MAP, THERE ARE SOME UNREACHABLE MINERAL FIELDS IN THE 5 O'CLOCK MULTY"

what about a reverse 1015?
there are no possible ovy spots here.
and nat to nat dustance is very short.

reverse 1015 won't look like katrina, here close positions like red vs teal are very 1014ish but terran push in that tight area (and make your the middle is never used in the entire game) looks very strong.
ProTosS4EveR
positional variety
Starparty
yea u placed purp main in the expo ^^
Starparty
and what about that purp expo anyway? Did you go for unsymetry or havent you finished that ramp part of the maP?
Starparty
and high basilica does not have same height as high dirt? Its like high temple, not like raised jungle.
MorroW
ye i know starparty but there is no high high terrain thats buildable in twilight so thats the reason why i remade it to normal bascilia so it gets same height as the high flagstones

anyhow update soon comming where it really is high bascilia and the high flagstones is really small area just for scanner larva nydus and a sunken maybe
sWaGu
what happened to the 6oclock base?
MorroW
didnt fix it yet. it takes so much time with this copy paste stuff t.t
neobowman
Can you build a gas if the geyser's on unbuildable terrain? Never bothered testing that.
MorroW
that just gave me an idea!

then u can put a gas on a cliff then t or z can build gas and glitch over scv or drone over the cliff :D
neobowman
Protoss could too using either two probes to drill through or a pylon.
Starparty
there are different kinds of unbuildable terrain afaik. Like a geyser on rocky ground can be built on, but a geyser on cliff cannot.

im usually wrong though, so try it before trusting what i say
testbug
i didn't know that sp.
as far as i know, a geyser in unbuildable tile cannot be built on. and i was 100% sure a geyser in rocky ground wouldn't work :S
we'll need to test that
freakling
The strange thing about geysers actually is that they can be build on on unbuildable terrain. To prevent a geyser from being buildable (e.g. "Troy"-assimilators) one requires unwalkable tiles (e.g. Cliffs)

I cannot guarantee that for all unwalkable tiles, but I have never expereinced any problems (i.e. exeptions from above rule) with unbuildable terrain so far.

If one finds unwalkable tiles that do not prevents building on the geyser one could potentially use it for a kind of geyser gate for drones, of course. However there are more things to keep in mind when doping this:
- does it create pathing issues? (doing it without unwalkable tiles, i.e. just blocking a narrow passage with a geyser causes pathing issues for sure, but is also sure to work, looks ugly on a cliff, though, but one could just block a ramp)
- is it racially ballanced? Terran and Zerg can for sure do it, but protoss either needs a finished assimilator or pylon jump or a probe drill or something...
- Does unwalkable terrain prevent building indriectly - by not alloowing a drone to reach building position for example or by making things like pylon jumping impossible (which is very likely).


Excalibur
You could also use doodads/unwalkable tiles to make geysers that make workers go all the way around the back of them, even behind minlines.
Nightmarjoo
PLEASE stop naming your map images "1.jpg" etc, I have no idea how many people have used "1.jpg" in the past and overridden the last idiot who used "1.jpg"'s map image -_-

As for the map itself, I'm inclined to really like it, if the mains are comfortable and roomy enough.

The middle seems a little too barren / open though for some reason.

I wonder if you can allocate more room to the 3rd gas expos. Speaking of which, shouldn't the 3rd gas expo have more building room? Else they'd be entirely unviable to take in pvz imo ._.
freakling
I see tank holes becoming a huge problem around the basilica expos. You could better use sunken ground edges for a smooth transition to cliff, as I did on Mystique.

I also need to tell you that your basilica ramps are bugged. The inverted ones seem to be OK, but the normal ones definitely are. It is not your fault, but the associated tiles are among those that lazy Blizzard guys did not fix before releasing BW... You need to use normal basilica ramps and the bottom tiles of high basilica ramps.
modified by freakling
MorroW
so ur saying a high bascilia ramp is actually as high in all places of the ramp?

nightmarjoo i get what ur saying and i think the main concern about this map is just that 4th gas and these close main-to-main distances.

anyhow im gonna probably need some more time to think about this so i think other should.

basically toss doesnt have to take his 3rd gas right there, he can just expo in another main base cause its small ramp protecting it, right?

and same comes to zvt zerg will probably take 3rd gas in another main since its so brilliant.

however that would lead to the 4th gas being easy to take (just the natural of the other main that was 3rd gas for zvt pvz)

but since im making that place tankable and fairly far distance from the 3rd gas should make it pretty balanced in tvz.


anyways back to the bascilia place. how i just explained it pretty much tells us that in majority of the match ups the bascilia expo will probably only be "good" for terran in non-mirror match-ups ofc. im sure tvp he will take 3rd gas in bascilia since how that offender bascilia ramp is designed with the buildable ground around it

one thing i can tell u that i will do is - i will make that high dirt area around that pretty middle stuff unbuildable all the way to the minonly bascilia, making proxi gates more obvious and bbs.
also terran hard pushing somewhat weaker cause i think thats one of the main concirns about this map
freakling
I don't know what you are planning to do. But if I understand you right you want to make the whole basilica medium ground to be able to place an expo on it, right? I do not like that kind of fake hill conceptionally, but mechanically it works.

However, no matter what kind of basilica you use there, note that high basilica ramps that should be mostly high ground are in fact low ground where they shoulkd be high ground. So you need the according tiles of the normal basilica ramps, which are medium ground on these tiles, to avoid blind unit/ attack miss bugs on the ramp.
As I said: take all tiles where there is crushed rock visible on from the high basilica ramps and all the other tiles from the low basilica ramps. Then you got it right.
I hope it is clear now. Elsewise feel free to ask.
I could also give you a template for Mystique ramps, if you want (do not take the ramps from the version that I already posted! it contains only placeholder ramps which are thus bugged in the same way I desribed above.)
modified by freakling
SiaBBo
Wow. Tanks rape whole main. Even natural.
MorroW
yea im gonna try work on that siabbo :)
Testbug
SiaBBo i didn't know you were french!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_d0_tZ3TAI
modified by Testbug
MorroW
update

fixed mineral lines

fixed edges around main and gas isnt tankable

made some stuff in middle cause before it was huge and empty


MorroW
so yea map is pretty much done and playable now
sTY_leZerG-eX
Nice I like it , but still I dont like that small ramp :(
Crackling
othello clone!
sTY_leZerG-eX
? I see no othello lol
MorroW
the amount of expansions and the middle is like othello i guess :P
Nightmarjoo
Dream of Balhae clone.
freakling
Bugs still in there:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6758/1015rampbugs.jpg

Just look out for the Zerglings vision area.
Solution: See above in my other post.

Why have you not done this one in space terrain? You would have had more functional, buildable terrain for your third gas, better terrain transitions without tank holes everywhere, all the ramps you need, stupid "Korhal Pride clone" posts...

Looks really hard to defend as Zerg in the early game.
modified by Freakling
MorroW
i just copied the ramps from other maps. i guess they are bugged too lol ^^

whats hard for z exactly? lol
MorroW
my biggest concirn atm is pvz cause p cant stand chanse against massling
freakling
I think it is the same problem for Zerg. No chance against mass lings means Protoss cannot dependably cover the choke with cannons. And Zerg cannot cover the choke with sunkens, though, now that I think of it, it is even harder for Protoss. There is no creep at the ramp. And one would have to defend uphill anyway, which makes static defenses pretty undependable, I think. And if one builds static defenses further away from the ramp the choke is really wide and also the gas seems to be vulnerable at least for purple. It is not tested, it is just what the picture looks like.

An I still think you should just redo it in space tileset which would also solve ramp bugs.
MorroW
freakling please

z just takes the minonly before a real army in zvp and in zvp its really not an issue since z shouldnt need to masssunken in the first place

in zvt he just normally build the possible 3rd hatch inbase and protect vs rines from the main base...


Nightmarjoo
yes
Nightmarjoo
perhaps put a neutral in the main near the ramp to assist with a normal pvz FE wall-in by the ramp?
MorroW
a neutral what
i hope u mean building cause thats what im thinking about too
freakling
I was talking about ZvT.
Some kind of neutral would help, main nat lineup is similar to kathrina, though without the wide ramp, so something similar might work.
However, the positional differences of gas vulnerability worry me.
You should also equalize the sl to ramp distances. It seems that at least red does not need to 3 hatch to defend the ramp.

When you fix the ramps you should also remove the high besilica doodads because they have the same altitude bug as the ramp.
MorroW
main hatch protects ramp in all positions so the gas position doesnt even matter
MorroW
updated
-twilight to jungle
-mineral formations
-wallins

final ver (maybe)
modified by MorroW
sTY_leZerG-eX
Why the change?
And tankable nats.
MorroW
because its easier to tile edit in jungle and its easier to make unbuildable and make high raised jungle instead of tile editing twilight stuff

i know the nats are tankable~~ meant to be

as a toss u should not let t get that far so early (just like any map) or just expo in the min-only first
larjarse
I do like this map alot, and I like how you add contrast to the map pic. I know the nat is purposely tankable, but I don't think it should be.
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