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Last update for (4)Over Under 0.9 : 2017, 04, 12 02:22
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4462 (4)Over Under 0.9 128*128Jungleterrain0.3betaground

The map has been rated 80 times and got a total of 25 points

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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)

Map I've been working on.

It's not finished, as you can see, but hopefully you get the idea. The middle plateaus will be how the top middle plateau looks like (obviously when it's finished).

If you see I made any stupid mistakes, or the concept is *too* unbearably** difficult for a particular race, then point out your concern.

Criticisms gogogo! And yeas, it's pretty macro oriented, maybe pretty standard, but I don't care about what kind of map you want me to make :)
I can also see having the third gas being kinda hard to secure.

I'm still working on (2)Miss You, too. I didn't give up on that map. I found out which eggs were making the game crash, and I fixed that issue. I'm still working on it, expect some updates on that soon.
Aren't there better looking ramps?
I see terran putting tanks in his mineral only to secure the nat, and then only needing to secure the bridge in the 3rd.
Tanks can easily reach the min only from all around outside, lurkers, goons and probably storms can't.

Also update (2)Broodwar!

You could move the nat choke away from the min only, towards the tar, if you want to weaken defensive tanks on the cliff.

Are all those tight passages between the hills intended or are you going to close them off with something?
I just used the ramps from La Mancha

It's not that easy to secure the third as you think. It's farther away than La Mancha and Fighting Spirit. The only advantage here is you can put tanks in the main to shoot over the third, but that doesn't cover much, and realistically, people won't really do that.

Crap, I forgot about (2)Broodwar. The tight passages were intentional, but I just threw them in to see how it would look, and how it might play, I can close those off and make the center, ...uhm... better, I guess.
I think there is enough room to make the 3rd untankable from the mains...
Yeah, I can definitely do that :)
You don't like spinel's?
Spinel's are alright, I never really cared much about the ramps in La Mancha, they served their purpose. They are a little more than acceptable.
modified by JungleTerrain
I love it, looks amazing. Will be interesting to see how the middle turns out :)
Ok, so I had edited my file of this map to the point where the map just sucked. So I downloaded the melee version here that's on the site.

I will finish this map now :)
I always have at least one backup file of my maps. To make things easy I alternately save as ...(n) and ...(o) version during the developing stages.
And if I am not 100% sure about a change I use additional backups (rarely happens, since I normally do not begin a new map without a full concpet in mind).
For deco I always use a "dumpmap" where I copy terrain elements I need from.

Great to sse you back, Jungle. Looking forward to a bunch of awesome maps.
About what should be done with the map:

- move 3rds away from main (I think you could also cut away from the mains if needed, they seem big enough).
- make sure there are enough passages through the middle, especially around the minonlies, to avoid unnecessarily tightening it up and shrinking it down.
- try to make the minonly less "fuzzy"... What I mean is: try to make the area from where it is cliffable more clearly defined. Start by moving the 3rd, including the entrance path, away from that cliff. Probably rotate the formatiojns a bit clockwise. You are probably going to end up with something like Andromeda where the expos is cliffable from an area close to your nat choke. I would avoid any "faraway" cliffing possibilities anyway, given that this is rotationally symmetric and therefore prone to clockwise/counterclockwise positional imbalances.
modified by Freakling
Thanks for the suggestions :)

And are you going to be making more maps again, Freakling?
I am right at it.
it looks interesting so far, waiting on finished product
Sand dunes make a hydralisk at 1 :)
Haha wow Crystal you were the only one that caught that so far! :) That was actually intentional. Good thing you spotted it.

Guys, I'm not dead, I'm still active, I just will probably stop making/editing maps for a while because of college. I've been very busy last couple of weeks with making my transition to college. But still expect me to be active on BWMN.

p.s. I forgot to mention that I have a more updated version of this map, I just need an opportunity to edit the map here on BWMN.
modified by JungleTerrain


Instead of listing the changes, here are the pictures. Main thing is the change in the location of the mineral only expansion.



OverUNDERjpg_zpse4c87bf2 photo OverUNDERjpg_zpse4c87bf2.jpg



OverUndergdfgdf_zps38cd1760 photo OverUndergdfgdf_zps38cd1760.jpg

Modified by Your Mom
modified by JungleTerrain
3rd gas geyser still seems tankable from main.
This is a lot like Gemlong, dried out now.
Yep. I never intended this map to be very uh... radical haha.

The similarity with Gemlong is astounding, though! :)
Plenty of space to move them away from the mains.
I'm going to have to take a break from this map, haha...

I was making progress and updating the map, but I left the map file at my parent's house, and I don't want to start work on another file.

Next time I go home I'll get the file and work on this. Hopefully I'll get this done soon :(
Just work on one of your other maps!
work on "Feel my love" :D I like that one.

I did not want to create a new thread for this for w/e reason, but here is the new concept for Over Under, a map I left unfinished a long time ago.

1st - The symmetry is off as of now. This is a result of me using the original map as a template for the new design... unfortunately I didn't think about just starting from scratch (maybe I liked the hydra at the top right main too much). This is why some parts look weird and the distances are kinda off. I will have to go back and fix this.

But you can see what the concept is so far. Nothing too complex, nothing too crazy.

I am thinking about removing the mineral only expansions. They get in the way of army movements and they are kinda awkward in general, although they add a lot of extra value to controlling the high ground.

Also, about the name: You can either go over (high ground), or you can go under (as in through the low ground middle). Boohoo I know it sucks -_-

Edit: words.
modified by JungleTerrain
Forgot to say:

The ramps should work decently well except for that one pesky tile with stupid high ground elevation. You know which one I'm talking about.

Even though these are blocky I prefer them to the look of the ramps using sand dunes.
What I would try:

Push the 3rds all the way to the edge (those little compound blocks don't really add anything to the map, because they are to small to even hide an overlord). Also move the 3rds counterclockwise and the mineral onlies clockwise and facing the other direction.
Widen the ramp towards where the mineral only is now, maybe change the angle as well.
Maybe also remove one or two mineral patch(es) from the 3rd. With the mineral only guarding it almost like another main and nat, those are lots of clustered-up resources.
Maybe I didn't do the best job showing it here but there is supposed to be a drop area behind the minerals of the 3rds. It will not be accessible by ground and the compound there is meant to help me wall that area off along with the minerals.

What do you mean by moving the mineral only clockwise? Vertical formations where there are horizontal ones and vice-versa?
modified by JungleTerrain
Put it (more or less) between the nat and the 3rd to free up middle space.

That would make the layout quite different, though. I actually like the current one. The middle still has enough wide spaces and with the side path to the 3rd there are enough alternative routes across the map. I think you should mainly focus on separating the mineral only and 3rd as much as possible to avoid overly turtly play. Given that the mineral only is high ground, allowing some more tank/cliffing angles from the low ground probably would not be a very dramtic change but free up a good chunk of space if you need it.

Maybe cross-check with (4)TERU, (4)Shadowplay and (4)Byzantium (all maps with somewhat similarly located mineral onlies, albeit rather different terrain layouts)
Wow, big change.
modified by Jukado
I will fiddle around with the terrain a bit, it's not final. Some areas sizes could get bigger or smaller. Actually the picture doesn't show the most current version either, I made the ramps leading towards the middle wider, but I will upload once I do some bigger changes.

I haven't decided on the number of patches because it depends whether I keep the mineral only...

If I keep the mineral only, I'd want to try and separate it as much as I can from the third, and the patch count will be lower for both.

If I don't keep the mineral onlies and instead just have the thirds, they will probably be 8 patch.

The determining factor for keeping the mineral only expansions would be if I can separate them from the thirds enough so that the high ground areas are comfortably spaced and still strategically important. If i feel I can't make the space work then I'll just get rid of the mineral onlies.

I can reduce the overlord spots by using high compound blends. Don't think the map is actually that tight though, I mean it's harder for a Terran to secure a third here than on FS. And harder than CB.

And I won't go back to the older version (I was conceptually uninspired back then). Now my focus is on making the high ground plateaus strategically important... i guess moving the mineral only to the low ground against the wall could be an option, idk.

Thnx for the feedback tho, it's kinda dead here atm lol
Cool map, I look forward to seeing what edits you go for next.
modified by Jukado
Yes options options...

You working on any maps? Freak was talking about possibly doing a 3 player map tourney in the future
Double post
modified by JungleTerrain
Are we all making a three player map?
I mean you don't have to... but would be nice :)
No update: just trying to fix the picture...
@Judako - I just found your pm on teamliquid from 11-28. I never log into team liquid. :D

The minerals look super awkward because you want them to be nontankable from the low ground.
I'm ok with them being tankable I think, I just need them to be equally tankable in all positions. And this is where I need to go back and fix some of the symmetry
@JungleTerrain Im not working on any decent 3 player maps.
Today I made a 4 player axial sketch. Might play around with a 3v3 map at some point too.

@CrystalDrag ah ok noted.

-Improved the symmetry a bit.
-Widened ramps on to the high ground middle.
-A little decoration.

Note: Preserved the Hydralisk in the top right main :)

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