|Damn I had this name lined up for one of my future maps haha|
Class map though nice one.
|Nice map I like the design I feel like Terran might be able to super turtle here though...|
|Probably T >>>>>>> Z, and probably P > Z.|
|I like it, but think that the ramp outside the nat should be a double ramp. I don't think the map is as turtley as you guys make it out to be; there are a lot of paths, and the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gas expos are all pretty vulnerable. The 3rd base is easy sure, but it's min only.|
|I agree with making the ramp wider into natural. |
Why are the corner expo ramps different?
|I cant tell from the map, but it looks to me once terran secures the ramp by his natural(which wont be hard for him) he gets 5 bases if he can hold off drop(missle turret spam w/ random siege tanks along the edge) ofc I dont play terran so I dont know how hard this will be...|
Dont know who the author is but prolly someone new, so if so then welcome!
Although might I suggest using inverted ramps? Just creates small imabalances with downwards ramps all the time...
|asiantraceur, I don't think you realize that the transitions between platform and low rusted ground which don't have the light grey border are pathable, acting as ramps instead of cliffs. In this case there's a pretty normal amount of entrances to all the bases.|
Also I've never seen an inverted low rusted ground to normal platform ramp on any map, they probably don't even exist.
|i think instead of ramps to the corner expos, just use low platform as walls around it.|
|I think something has 2 be done about the nat.. looks like a contain can be deadly.. very hard to break.|
Other that that i really like this :)
|Well the contain would most likely be in the low ground so wouldnt be that bad|
|im just guessing, but I don't think very many players would use a base with 4 mineral patches, it would take just as long as set up as the nearby 3rd gas, with much less reward. i would make it at least 5 patches...|
maybe I'm just picking on it cuz it looks lonely. :)
|I think zergs would definitely use the 4 patch base, they need a lot of hatches anyway.|
|Wait did freakling actually make this? I thought freakling wouldve used better ramps...yah terran could use it if they mined out or something...protoss might distance mine but they would prolly expo elsewhere and I would definitely expo there as zerg(although prolly as a 4th or 5th or 6th base)|
|There are no "better" ramps for rust pit - which is why it is such an underused terrain. In fact, I cannot remember an decent map that ever made use of it, which is a shame.|
I reduced the minonly to 4 patches because it's much closer and safer than the minonly in maps with a comparable setup (p.e. (3)Aztec or (2)Match Point). And in those maps it's tyical that (non-zerg) players get the minonly as their 3rd.
I aimed for a bit more tactical variability with this map, I don't think it's too advantageous for any one to grab the minonly before a 3rd gas, but terran can still easily do it while slowly pushing out with tanks. And Zerg can use that space well for macro-hatches after getting their 3rd. And even for Protoss it's an almost free expo in later stages of the game.
|Lol yah those ramps are weird...tho I expected you to be able to somehow make ramps for them xD...|
Would protoss have enough room to flank terran? Play as zerg so dont know much about tvp...
|Since some people seem not to get the grasp of how this map actually works: Here is a little tactical map:|
scout path/shortest rush distance
routes where big armies can move around
Flanking room shouldn't be a problem, most of the areas are very wide.
modified by Freakling
|Woah I did not know those parts could be moved through my bad completely now its actually playable(or actually always waslol) didnt know those parts where its like vertical was walkable okay yah...great map my bad xD|
|I think it would be a bit hard to flank if terran sets up on the bit of highground and the bit of solar array leading from the min only to third.|
The most logical flank would be from the 4th gas and the rust pit(hexagon area). Either flank could be vulnerable, because they really can't help each other if they are attacked (small gap in the middle won't help much.
If you attack from the rust pit into the solar array area, Terran could set up tanks on the low platform/solar array just outside the natural and the highground and would have a surround.
at least that's my analysis, if that means anything :p
modified by Taranok
|So you need to spread and move your forces all the way from your nat to the ridge, defending four chokes to seal that 4base/3gas deal. Sounds fair to me. |
modified by Freakling
|i doubt you really need to cover the small ramp, if you're on the ridge than you already cover it anyway.|
using the back rust pit would put your army wayy out of position.
|Attacker can split his army, too... And even then - do you realize how huge both the ramp to the middle and the ridge are?|
It's like saying, Aztec is imba, because you only need to hold your bridge to secure four bases... And if anthing Aztec is anti-terran imba.
then would P>T on this map?
(srry if i sound newb, trying to learn a bit)
modified by Taranok
|What do I know? Accuratel judging the balance of a map without having top notch players play some hundred games on it is hard :P|
Seriously, even korean pro-maps turn out somewhat racially imba one way or another most of the time.
|Lol "even korean pro-maps" = a lot of them|
|the "even Korean pro maps" means that including those that should be near perfect cause they are for competitions. Not like "some of them"|
|Wow, even from the picture I could tell those were ramps... You guys seriously need to get more familiarized with tile editing haha|
|and by "you guys" you mean asiantraceur lol|
|My bad cant open up starcraft on this computer TT^TT|
|Can you shed light on your thinking behind the thin choke at the middle of the shortest path (which happens to be the centre of the map due to cross spawns). Its very interesting. I have put one on Lloyds Beacon. Its a map feature that I think might promote a concept I call retreaters advantage, and this concept should be greatly desired in my opinion. However there are scenarios I can envisage that are unsought.|
Also which is best, 1536, 1496 or 1504?
modified by Cardinalallin
|Concept has been there for a hell long time.'|
it makes it so that it encourages bigger armies taker longer but bigger paths.
|Yeah, Bloody Ridge is a recent example of a pro-map using that concept. Also Polaris Rhapsody, Flight Dreamliner and Match Point used the narrow short, wide long path concept, albeit not with a central choke. A bunch of older maps, such as Peaks of Baekdu, Loki or Blue Storm are even somewhat more radical by only allowing small (i.e. less-than-tile-sized) units to use the shortcut chokes.|
|This may seem pedantic but I think its important. None of these examples fit the bill. Bloody Ridge is the closest. However it doesnt qualify because there are two chokes on the shortest path and there is an expansion in between.|
|Well I just found plainswalker and Lava ridge town, and No critter crossing for the first time :)|
The 'No critter crossing' style centre is exactly what I would like to see uesd in a proleague. Too bad, I guess I better start learning chinese and submit No critter crossing to them.
Crystal Im trying to find your 2player map, jungle terrain, left vs right and you spawn in the bottom corners. And there are bridges in the centre. Whats it called please?
Edit: I found it, its called (2)River Crossing. You put the author name as i hate mudkipz so thats why I couldnt find it.
modified by CardinalAllin
|So what's your point, asie from the insight that I did not just copy any preexisting pro-map?|
|yeah im confused too|
|Umm, I dont think I really have a point. I was just sort of asking for a little explanation for your reason of putting a centre choke because I dont think I had ever seen a map with a thin choke at the centre before. But No critter crossing precedes this map, and probably others before that one. Maybe I should refrain from 3am posting in the future! But basically I wondered if your reasons for the choke were the same as mine. And Ive not heard talk of a retreaters advantage before, so I wondered if you or anyone has thought of this concept of retreaters advantage consciously before.|
modified by CardinalAllin
|the center choke... has been around since forever. :P|
|lolol i love that map. I remember when I couldn't beat Blizzard's AI. :)|
|That map just reminds me of blindguy vs boxer|
|The solar array is really ugly :) distracts me on the map.|
|Just to make sure: You're talking about this map again, right?|
Have you looked at it in-game? Because I put a lot of time into those solar array patterns... Or are you talking just about the solid line?
And anyway, there isn't really a good alternative to solar array for unbuildable terrain...
I think solar array is a great and very unique terrain. I could write a whole guide about all the cool things one can do with solar array...
|O my blindguy vs boxer comment was about challenger...|
Lol I know solar array is really weird...I would explain how but you could prolly do it better..
Btw I like the catwalk edit I never thought of that...
|Update [Version 1.01]:|
Fixed gas positions and observer version.
|There is a problem with the mineral at blues natural; the mineral field 2 closest to the middle. worker will go all the way around from the upper two, the mine from behind|
|Yeah, I think I've seen that too. If you order the worker to take a sane path, it'll obey though.|
I think I also place a supply depot to block the way...
Anyway, fuck that worker, he's stupid ;)
|Update for map pack|
- resources balanced
- ramps optimized (terrain level issue with normal rusty pit ramps)
- fixed drop spots
|Slightly changed observer triggers for this one, intended for submission to iCCup map competition.|
<16>created by <18>F<07>r<18>ea<07>k<1D>l<07>i<1D>ng
<1C>MAPSTERS <1E>OF THE UNIVERSE
Mapsters of the universe? XDD
And when you put "presented by" it makes it sound like you already won a map spot XD
|Not me, who came up with that stupid title :[ !|
And if it'll not be "presented by" anyone, no one will ever read it :P
|I asked Fry and we're(Crystal and I at least) are too young to get the reference...Masters of the Universe was a series similar to Avengers...but like...before 1990's...ancient...|
|Are you renaming everything without the (n) cuz everything's getting truncated...|