|So I'm still not that great at deco but I'm working at it. The high temple blends are VERY temporary. Think of them as placeholders for a better blend. Natural and min-only still need deco, I'll get to it sometime. Tell me what you think about this edit :D. And I still need to make sure naturals are wall-able. Last thing is that it looks like bottom right and top right mains are larger than the others. |
modified by Phobic
|Deco is nice, but ah still dont know what are the temples for.|
|Arent the mains a bit too elongated?|
|I think those dirt-via-ruin-to-jungle blends look amazing, you should extend that style for the rest of the map, when it it finished.|
I already said it in the first map thread: The middle expos should be minonlies, Having four gas shared between two expos, that are that close together and cliffable from the same central passage, does not really work out so well (unless you are a slow pushing terran, probably)
I#d suggest you make the other minonlies gas expos instead, with reduced gas count (the hill expos should probably have gas count reducet, too).
It's strongly advised that you keep tank distance to the main with that expo though.
I think you should aim to have a mostly square main first - that would do two things:
- minimize perimeter usage relative to main size (important if you have a map with that much stuff around the edges)
- minimize distance to the next clockwise expo, making for an overall more well spaced out expo layout (important for rotational balance)
Then you should probably make the nat narrower, you can make it a bit morelong strtched instead, right now it looks like it may be hard to have room for cannons between a wallin and Nexus without blocking unit movement at some point...
The third could also have a bit more room towards the middle for more comfortable unit pathing, building space and drops (you do not really need that water, which now only unnecessarily tightens things up, anyway), I think it's no problem if that expansion cliffs the nat since player will expand there as soon as possible anyway and right now it's already within tank range, no need to descriminate only against lurkers and goons...
Finally if you could make the now-minonlies to gas expos that are out of tank range from both the adjacent main and third that would be great,
with ideal placement you'd only need ~34 tiles (just over a quarter of an edge) to achieve that (gas at a the edge straight from the CC/Nex/Hatch minerals to one side of it)
The main point is, that this map, similar to (3)Central Plains (due to similar expo layout) forces players to take expansions in a strict order, in particular the counterclockwise hill expo as a third.
That means that one does not have the usual options of expanding towards or away from your enemy, and you have to account for that in some way.
The neutral block is already a good start, but I think a warb gate is just way too fagile, at least stack them, better stack something with higher HP (like in Medusa or Electric Circuit) or use an at least double layer of eggs (like Central Plains)...
You know what, reading that wall again I guess you'll probably only get half the things I tried to tell... I think I'll just tinker around in scmdraft a bit myself and make a screenshot to show you how you should space things out.
|Something like this (you'd get even some more room, if you'd cut away on the right main and moved everything ~2..4 tiles or so to the right...|
Click on the picture for a higher resolution version.
I'll upload the map to observer, if you want a look at it.
You may also be interested in the temple to high ground blend I did.
|I like the picture, but i think the main problem is your trying to fit too much into a 128128... 18 expansions as opposed to 12/14 |
still doable, but bit harder.
modified by CrystalDrag
|Anything from 12 (p.e. Gods Garden, Jade) to 17 (p.e. Andromeda, Gladiator) is kinda standard :P|
If you want to be special, try 15!
modified by Freakling
|o_O 15...... |
4x3 = 12
Ima try that :D
maybe its just this map, because of too much buildings and the raised jungle
grand line has 16(one in database) but i count it as 15 :D
modified by CrystalDrag
|Seriously, I haven't the slightest idea what that last sentence is all about...|
But: At least there's eleven in existence...
modified by Freakling
|The temples are actually for balance. If they were not there rotational balance in relevance to the middle expos would be unfair. Bottom left and top right would always have an easier time to defend. With the temples both players can take a middle double gas with the same risks/rewards for the most part.|
|Let me state the main problems again|
- make the middle more open
- make the middle expos minonlies and move them further apart
- make the low ground expos next to the main gas expos
- block the backdoor to the third with something less easily destroyed
- reshape mains (minimize perimeter usage), give more room to the thords
- make the ramps to the third so they are somewhat protected by your nat, so runbys into the third to clif and crush your nat with ranged units is not a trivial thing to do.
- what happened to the deco? It looked good so far.
|I'm not ignoring u its just I'm not changing it all at once. I am making small edits at a time so be patient plz. This was a symmetry edit. Also I'm afraid of making the mains too small. |
modified by Phobic
|I don't say make them smaller altogether, just dent them in around the edges and bulge them out towards the centre a bit.|
|If you are going to make the gases like that, then|
NW top left
NE top left
SW bottom right
SE bottom right
Just to make the bases have better pathing/building space for infastructure.
i think you can keep the double gas expos, but move them apart more so the middle is bigger.
and agree with everything else freakling said.
|I don't understand why you keep using those gas placements. Seriously, most people that play this map will complain about the gases and say stuff like, "why are the gases like that?", kinda like how I already do.|
I remember being told on Gemlong once by someone that the positioning of the minerals in the natural affected their timing and threw them off. Little stuff like that sometimes throws people off. I think being more standard in that sense would help your mapping.
modified by JungleTerrain
|On Gemlong I'd rather a assume that the fact that the nat has 8 minerals instead of 7 is what throws timings off a bit...|
|Gemlong has 8 minerals? i didnt even remember that haha|
|Are you ever gonna finish another map btw? Broodwar maybe or that Desert map? Or even something brand new?|
|If youre gonna make gas placements like that, can you make them symetric? Or are there even more levels of inefficiency depending on which corner it is at?|
|I don't know, I forgot to get all my maps from my home computer, and I haven't had a chance to go back and get them. I was working on Over Under, but I have one started here on this laptop...|