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|Is this an SC2 remake? It certainly looks like it.|
|Nope. I dont made any RMs.|
|I just thought so because all the expansions are really out in the open and hard to defend, which is more typical for SC2 maps.|
To make this more playable as a BW map, I'd suggest you give at least the top corner expos ramps or tight chokes.
The neutral bottom expo has the minerals to the sides further away from the mining building, which makes it ambiguous how to best place it. So I would change those formations. There would also be enough space to make that expansion high ground with two ramps to the sides ; maybe making it a double gas expo would be an interesting option to toy around with.
The mineral onlies need more space, think about adding a comsat at the left one, for example.
And I would bet that the nat chokes are too open overall. In PvZ you want hydras to be somewhat choked in as to make cannon sniping and storm dodging not too easy for Zerg.
Otherwise I really like this. Nice use of plating for the deco.
|Yeah, it was supposed to be a fast, all-in preferable map. |
I like proxy play, slowlord drops, elevators...etc.
(dont play OR watch SC2, so dont now)
Thanks for suggestions, really appreciate it.
- Top corner expos is now 3-pylon wall-able, instead of four pylon wall.
- Change Neutral exp. and make it double gas exp.
(this is actually a step backwards, i turn it to
one gas exp. and now back, so you made my mind ;P)
- Tight up the nat. chokes a bit.
|You should also consider TvZ. It's so hard for Z if there is no 3rd gas expo to comfortably turtle on with lurkers.|
|Ok, so i push back the wide ramps and made them smaller,this make 3rd more easy to defend.|
And i work on your previous idea, made corner exp. middle ground.
Its turn out pretty good, looks more interesting.
(good second option for zerg 3th gas, i think)
|At the moment there are 8 minerals in the main, which is fun.|
modified by CardinalAllin
|You could grab the angled ramps from this map if you wanted:|
|Some minor updates:|
- obs. version
- added one more mineral path to the 3rd.
- shortened distance between main and nat.
- mineral block, to help wall-in the choke
- reverse gas at nat. (from up, to bot. position)
modified by J1NX
|And high ground corner bases :)|
|Ok, working on final version. If you see any issues say it now. I wont be so much open for changes after that.|
Little story of this map:
First version looks very different, it was heavily influenced by RoV but it was reversed. This is nearly undistinguishable because of many later updates.
(but it doesnt look like RoV either, because in that time i dont know how to make wide ramp, lol)
Yeah, i think it was 06/07 i am not sure, but i know it was one or two years after RoV.
It have two more expos for both players, one next to 3rds, but accesable from center path, and second one was highground expansion on center buttom, right next to neutral double gas expo.
otherwise its looks tighter and more chaotic.
Found it year ago, and after these years it still looks appealing, so i decide somewhat polish it.
I was very satisfied how it looks after this last modern update, and i want to post it somewhere.
And what a happy coincidence, BWMN is still alive. (map side with almost the same age, they will be a nice couple)
Also, i think this is the map that kick me back to maping. And it is my favorite map i have done so far.
modified by J1NX
|I actually happen to really like this map. So it would be great to see a finalized, polished version of it.|
Remaining issues as I see them are:
- the mineral onlies are still awkward. Consider the following points especially:
* it should be clear for any expo where to best build your CC/Nex/Hatch when taking it (and the map should be bug-tested to ensure that workers do not have any serious pathing issues when mining for each respective mineral field for either race) ; here, due to the position off the mineral fields, the surrounding walls and the lack of any indicators on the gound, it is not clear at all where to place yopur building properly.
* additional to that, terran should be able to place a comsat (or nuke-silo) withuot a problem ; on this map, right now, at leat for the left position, it is blocked, unless you place your CC considerably farther off the minerals.
* Given how open the expos are (plus easily air harrassable, plus cliffable from the low ground, at least by tanks), with just four mineral patches, there is simply too little gain for the risk of taking them. Players will probably just ignore them until the rest of the map is mined out. So I'd add at least one more patch, pronbably better go up to six, making them viable choices in non-super late game scenarios.
- The double gas expo, being far (and equally far) from both players and being but one of a bunch very open, vulnerable expos available, ought to be high ground with one normal-sized ramps to either side (so two ramps in total) to make it more defensible.
|I am glad, you are still interested. I know you mention these expansions earlier, sry, i didnt answer you properly first time. |
First the min onlies. Yeah you are right they are awkward, but dont look at it like at proper expansion, its more like random pile of spare minerals.
They shoud be useful only in late game scenarios. Just when all other expansion are mined out or occupied.
In that time you have approximately 40+ spare workers, and in that case i always choose distance mining, yeah, i think this "expo" insnt even worth CC/Nex/Hatch.
(these four mireral patches have just five hundred each)
"CC/Nex/Hatch placement is not clear" i would call it optional, it up to you where you want your cc, or if you want comsant or not.
(the minig rates is not that diferent)
I dont think this expo is important enough to provide any significant positional imbalances.
Now, the double gas neutral expansion, i intentionally made it to have practicaly no use until late game.
If i made min-only richer and double gas expansion safer, players will prefer expand toward each other early, competing who gets it first. Completely ingnoring upper part of the map.
Just like you said, this map have few open expos which is hard to defend.
But, i cant compensate this fact making middle looks more interesting then the other parts of the map.
It will hurt the gameplay, and dont bring anything good. Just make slowpush through the middle more passible.
Especially Terrans will abuse all buildable terrain on this map, and then siegedrop you main right from the middle.
Thanks for the comment and sugestions, but i am not going to change this, at least for now.
|"i think this "expo" insnt even worth CC/Nex/Hatch"|
Hatch is cheap and gets rid of one spare worker... T will float in CC from different expo.
And players will often sacrifice workers to free up supply (or use them as desperation meat shields to support a small army).
"Now, the double gas neutral expansion, i intentionally made it to have practicaly no use until late game.
If i made min-only richer and double gas expansion safer, players will prefer expand toward each other early, competing who gets it first. Completely ingnoring upper part of the map."
I don't agree. The expo is too far away from the nat with a lot of open ground in between to be attractive as a third for Terran or even Protoss. And if you consider the all-buildable ground a problem, the obvious choice would be to make some of it unbuildable.
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