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Forum - main
How do you think about 'Just for seen' map?
page: 1 2
Such as

http://mapdori.gmy.cc/bbs/zboard.php?id=board_usermap&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=on&ss=on&sc=on&keyword=Zzz&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=1815

Many of member mapdorian(mapdori is homepage of Ongame Map Architect Team) prefer good design map than good balance and exciting map.
I think 'only for design' map should not made and I tell them about it, but they don't think like that.

What do you think about?

2005, 10, 05 14:36
I'm not exactly sure what map you wanted me to look at from that link.
I think that a beautiful map is almost as good as a balanced map. Many will agree with me on this one. There is a limit to how much beauty you can put into a map before it becomes imbalanced. It is very hard to balance beauty and playability the way starcraft is.

I hope I answered your question.
2005, 10, 05 15:10
SpoR[Mech] is quite right.

It's easier to create a beatiful OR balanced map, and even harder to create a beatiful AND balanced map.

But after Starcraft is a game, not a museum, it should always be about balancing. But definetely the best maps are beatiful and balanced maps.
2005, 10, 05 15:41
beauty > balance ;)
2005, 10, 05 15:43
Yip Starparty, you're also right imo.

A beautiful map, that is "okay" balanced, is still better, than a "very good" balanced map, that looks ugly.
2005, 10, 05 15:47
But you won't play a map that is totally unbalanced, just because it looks good.
2005, 10, 05 15:49
but you wont even bother with a supepbalanced map if the jpeg looks bad :P
2005, 10, 05 15:58
Well, every map can look decent, if you just make some decoration after you completed the balancing part. That's the Bill307-approach. To me, balancing and even more important gameplay/playability are the most important aspects. There are many maps that look good, are fair race/position wise and are still not really fun, because the gameplay is boring or onedimensional.
2005, 10, 05 16:40
Looks like a nice mixture, after it's like:

beauty - both - balance
Starpy - Lis - panschk

(>^^)> <(^^<) (btw i love the Starpy shortform :D)

Well, imo it's definetely harder to make a map balanced, than beatiful, so that should be the most layed on point when creating a map. You can still make it look awesome.

(btw, that's my idea for a Starpy :P Random Competition, make a chosen map beatiful, without changing it too much? :)
2005, 10, 05 17:13
I personally like the pro maps that look the best and make good use of terrain aspects. Some of my favorite maps are:

Mercury - I love the design of this map regardless of how it plays (even though it is pretty balanced)

Neo Forbidden Zone - cool hexagon design and the gameplay isnt too imba.

Coulee - This map sorta has a dragon winding design and its a very good island hybrid map making for excellent balance. One of the first maps to use mineral walls.

Bifrost - This map doesn't look flashy but The gameplay is what counts. Also its the first map to use the small back path.

BladeStorm - This map is very plain looking but it has that pointy look that matches the name and the game play is pretty balanced. One of the first maps to have backdoor expansion.

Namja Iyagi - I think this map looks like shit, but I love playing on it. I also hate the name.

Bloodbath - Very Simple 4 corner small map. Who knew such a shitty design of a map can equal so much fun :)

2005, 10, 05 17:15
I can agree with most of your picks, but don't say NFZ is balanced please :D TvP is clearly not.

Remember Testie going 100-0 on this map PvT in pgtour (not public battle net or something) ?

Maps like estrella are much more balanced TvP, even though I agree NFZ looks cool.
2005, 10, 05 17:20
Listoric, thats a good idea for map competiton 4!
I say we use Jungle story for the map to beautify (that map looks like shit)
2005, 10, 05 17:26
There is also maps like Azaelea and Into the Darkness 2 that look very good, but I will never play them simply because the gameplay sucks.
2005, 10, 05 17:28
I think the strongest maps have (A) New concepts (B) Very Balanced play (C) Beautiful designs. It has to have at least 2 of those to be playable.
2005, 10, 05 17:35
the top factor when making a map is exciting gameplay

secondary to that is balanced gameplay

then you have originality and new concepts

then you have the design of the map



imo the design of the map generally doesnt give much to the beauty of aesthetics of the map. like one of the maps empyrean made, where half the map was a giant bridge- the design of it might appeal to people visually on the jpeg, but in the game it doesnt look good.
2005, 10, 07 20:46
Good post aiurz. exciting and at the same time enjoyable gameplay is the most important part. Confused units, lack of building space and stuff like that ruin the gameplay for example.
2005, 10, 07 23:17
a map must apeal on the jpeg too so people lay their eye on it the first time.

You can make a good looking map and "they" tell you that you only care about the looks.

You can then make an ugly (but very playable) map and they tell you the opposite, that it looks so bad that it sux that way instead :P

They tell you that "if you make a _good_ map, it will be recognized as such and thus played". That is bullshit. Promotion Promotion Promotion is the key to victory.

Or even less than that sometimes. If Götterdämmerung would have been named "Dawn of the Gods" instead, it would never have been used for EPS. But now some german EPS Admin layed his eyes on the map because the NAME was appealing..

I actually really believe this is the way it is.
2005, 10, 08 14:55
I have to agree on that. Just think about a list of maps, you choose by name first, second is the look, and then you check if it's not just "the look". If the balancing then is good, you might download the map and give it a try.

I haven`t tried Empyreans bridge map, and i won`t, because it does not look appealing to me. Arena on the other hand, is quite simple, and for that, good. The look is as well good, so i downloaded it :)
2005, 10, 08 18:49
"How do you think about 'Just for seen' map?"

BAD TITLE PLEASE CHANGE IT. IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
2005, 10, 08 19:03
Just because you didn`t get it :P
2005, 10, 08 19:04
I THINK WELL FOR JUST FOR SEEN MAP HOW DO YOU?!!!
2005, 10, 08 23:50
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