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defenition of "hybrid"-map
page: 1
We maybe should have done that before:D

Is a hybrid map something like iron curtain, like flothefreak suggested, or an estrella-like "only mainbases are islands"map like I unterstand it? This is pretty important now that we want to classify all the maps.

*it's def_i_nition, right?^^
modified by panschk[FP]
2007, 09, 21 23:09
Well, maps like Estrella, I always called semi-island. Forbidden Zone is semi-island. To me, hybrid != semi-island, hybid = arkanoid, or something which is a land map with special things like mineral walls or neutrals which make it island, as opposed to maps like Estrella, which are 100% ground, except for having a main not connected by ground paths to the rest of the map. This is my opinion atleast, :)
2007, 09, 21 23:14
Well I tend towards assigning estrella, nfz etc to the "island" maps category, because there are close to no "real" islands maps anyway.
2007, 09, 21 23:26
As I said some time ago, imo the meaning of "island map" has changed over the time. Maps like Arkanoid are hybrid/Semi-Island now, while Estrella counts as an Island map.

So I'd say we follow this rule:

1) If a zergling cannot run from every main to at least one other main with all the in-game-removable stuff removed (50000-min-bocks are not really removeable, just like khaydarin crystal formations), the map is an island map.

2) Maps that are not "island" and that don't allow you to move an ultralisk from each main to every other main without changing anything in the map (like destroying some buildings) are hybrid/semi-island maps.

3) Everything else is a ground map. Namely: Maps where you can move ultralisks between all the mainbases freely.

These definitions should be clear, putting every single map into only one category. Tell me if you find an exception, but I can't seem to find one.
2007, 09, 22 00:03
what about baekdu, where if you send an ultralisk to the other main from your own it won't go there ;)
2007, 09, 22 01:23
i really have no clue
2007, 09, 22 01:44
I always figured hybrid to be maps where the mains are only reachable from air but the rest of the map is all touching by ground (Estrella, NFZ, Gorky, Uboat, Indian Lament, Dream of Balhae etc.). Late game the map plays like any regular ground map usually. Maps where the main ground is the most important place to secure.

And Semi-Island plays more like full island to be maps where like half or more of the map is divided into major islands but you can drop units anywhere on that specific section and reach anywhere by land (Parallel lines, Snowbound, Charity, Symmetry of Psi, Where no particular place of terrain is any more valuable than another.

Its really kind of hard to differenciate when you have maps like Valhalla/815 where units can walk almost anywhere on the map and attack the bases but you need drops to be able to take the resources.

Island ofc is maps like (Dire straits, Parradox, Island Hop, Crimson Isles, etc.)

Maps where they start out island just due to some destructible or mineral wall I always just considered as just unusual ground maps. (coulee, arkanoid, Monty hall, etc) Although Arkanoid is more like a semi-island than a hybrid imo.

modified by SpoR
2007, 09, 22 09:33
Its a really fine line, I suggest just putting semi & Hybrid into 1 category. Then Destrutables maps into another.
2007, 09, 22 11:16
@ Nightmarjoo: You should be able to micro a single Ultralisk well enough to solve this issue.

@ SpoR: That's about what my definitions were before, too. But we can't really use those for classifying maps...
So with my suggestion, we will essentially pack Island and Semi-Island maps into one category, and everything that is not ground or island into the hybrid category. "Hybrid" does not imply 'islandishness' so much as Semi-Island does, so that should be ok.
2007, 09, 22 11:17
Well By common definition hybrid usually implies complete island map that evolves into a main ground battle late game.

With destructables there is the ability to glitch through mineral walls or break neutral bldgs for early cheese which is not possible on hybrids.

I think they should be sepperate categories.
2007, 09, 22 11:22
Well By common definition hybrid usually implies complete island map that evolves into a main ground battle late game.

With destructables there is the ability to glitch through mineral walls or break neutral bldgs for early cheese which is not possible on hybrids.

I think they should be sepperate categories.
2007, 09, 22 11:23
hm, when i was starting BW and learning maptypes and so on, semi-island was the term for estrella/mirage maps...

hybrid is for me the arkanoid/iron curtain thing, als it is REALLY hybrid in its actual meaning: it is air and ground at the same time as you are playing like on an island map but it turns out to a real groundmap. which would be hybrid for me.

also note that those semiisland-maps are always playing somewhat different, even in lategame - as you need to rely on shuttles to reach the enemy's base at all, and to expo to other mains. it never becomes a real groundmap, so i dont know why you think 'hybrid' would fit here...
2007, 09, 22 11:41
Because afer early game most of the battles take place where the resources are; on the main land where you don't need shuttles anymore except for maybe to ferry units up/down your main.

I've been paying bw off and on since 98 and the first time I started hearing the word 'hybrid' was for maps like New no way out and indian's lament. Way before mineral walls and neutral bldgs were discovered.
modified by SpoR
2007, 09, 22 11:54

Ground: "Ultralisk reaches every main"

Hybrid: "Zergling reaches every main after removing

Semi-Island: "Zergling does not reach every main after removing destructables + ultralisk can reach at least one natural from another natural"

Island: "Zergling does not reach every main after removing destructables + Zergling does not reach any naturals from another natural after removing destructables"

"natural" in this case are expansions that are NOT connected to the main already (like on mirage or parallel lines), but that more or less belong to a certain player. Examples would be the naturals on Estrella.
Maps like parallel lines would fall under Semi-Island this way, because there is a connection between each 2 of those 4 gas expansions.
These definitions are not as exact as the ones I proposed earlier, but only where it comes to seperating island maps from semi-island maps.
Maps that are semi-island but where the path between the naturals is blocked by destructables fall under semi-island, too. We can't seriously add a semi-island-hybrid category...

If you are not pleased with the meaning of "hybrid" implied here, give me a more fitting name.

About Arkanoid: I'd not consider it semi-island at all. It's very rare that you actually use shuttles to get out of your main on that map, unless you play bunker terran. Those buildings go down too fast (one of my clanmates recently owned lots of players in pvp on arkanoid with speedlot rushes, since many players feel too safe and expand and tech too much). By my definitions, Arkanoid would be a hybrid map, so that's fine for me :)
2007, 09, 22 12:32
I have to agree with spines here.
2007, 09, 22 15:47
nah we shouldnt make the categorys based on which units can pass from which expo to where...

i personally would say

island/semi-island as "air map"
arkanoid/sound barrier/iron curtain style maps "hybrid" or "other"
rest "ground"

airmaps then would be maps with bases without terrain access to the whole map. so easy as it is.
2007, 09, 22 16:34
The terrain access thing is what I did with units. Zerglings are the smallest ground units in a melee game (excluding scarabs), and Ultralisks the largest ones. Thus if not even the smallest unit can reach a certain place, there is no terrain access at all. If the largest unit can't reach a certain place, the terrain access is limited like on 815, which makes the map hybrid.

"airmaps then would be maps with bases without terrain access to the whole map. so easy as it is."

So LT would be an airmap?

Except for separating Semi-Island from Island, my definitions result in exactly what you want, flo, except for being clear and not so wishy-washy as yours.
2007, 09, 22 20:05
I like spines definitions. And I think we should go with that when we change the playtypes in the database. Semi-island and island can both be "island", as drawing the line between those two is pretty hard anyway, and I dont want to change the scripts again <-lazy :P

2007, 09, 22 21:18
that zergling ultralisk thing is just way too complicated. there is no point making an difference for which-units-can-pass. your post isnt clear but just confusing. mine is not wishy-washy, but just saying what needs to be said as the rest is clear to every human being.

and if you think LT is an airmap after my rough description, then you're korinthenkacking.
2007, 09, 22 23:27
Complicated? Eh, visualize it...

There is a difference between mains connected for zerglings and mains connected for ultralisks.
815 is connected for zerglings, but not for ultralisks, hence it is a hybrid map.
2007, 09, 23 00:03
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