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Last update for (2)EerestLake1.3 : 2006, 03, 13 16:02
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1033 (2)EerestLake1.3 128*128Syrreph0.1beta

The map has been rated 52 times and got a total of 5 points
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Melee

Observer

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Comments:   GMCS (1 elements)


Nyzse
This is my first map in years so there are probobly some issues with balance and prettyness. Critic anything though even nit picky stuff, I like my maps to be perfect ^^. I haven't been able to test vs a human yet though becuase no one is online. (I'll add replays when I do though).


The backdoor entrances screw up path finding especialy for the left side (I'm going to fix this but don't know how yet). I had to use stacked minerals to block the backdoors so it looks a bit weird at first (those are 32 minerals stacks btw).
modified by Nyzse
panschk[FP]
How _not_ to do mineral blocking. The pathfinding will be bad the way it is now. Never place blocking stuff on the shortest way between players if there is another way to opponent.

Besides that, the map would be better with more battle space in the middle I think, and here and there you find straight lines that destroy the look of it. I think it has potential, but you need to change quite a lot.
panschk[FP]
oh, you were faster :)

You need to find a way to make the blocked way much longer than the other one. If you even need blocked backdoor ramps. This feature is not very fascinating or new to me at least :/
Nyzse
I can widen the battlefield (rocky area) by filling up the water a bit, but I was scared this would make the bases too close togather could you GMCS where I should bring the level down to? or should I move it up some and take out some of the high dirt up there? Shorting that path might make the path finding work though (also I can make the dirt patch from the lower ramp to the expansion longer), any other ways to make lower path longer to fix path finding?
yenku
hmm, its usually a good idea to have a bigger mid, and those two empty areas could be filled with an expo, lots of doodads, not needed. Try decorating with terrain a bit more.
Spitfire
oO that's rusher's paradaise. Too short main distance, really.. There obviously should be an opportunity for tech games.
Nyzse
Well if the distance is already to short I can't widen the rocky area down so I can't use that to fix the pathfinidng, do you suggest I make the dirt paths to the bottom expansion longer and move the rocky area up some?

I realized the left and right areas are kinda worthless, they are good for air unit harass though wihtout making it broken.

I should have replays later, but every game I've played so far hasen't been to good so :( (not becuase of the map but becuase of playskill). I will proboboly make a new version soon anyways to fix these things, I'm just trying to get alot of things to fix before I work on it becuase I don't wanna redo doodads and terrain and everything that I already fixxeed once.

I really like the blocked path though so I don't think I'll take it out, it caused alot of interesting games.

edit...
Or is it really that bad to have a quick rush every now and then, it's not like it's hard to defend, and the distance (right now and on lowground) is about the same distance from 12 to 3 on lost temple. But if I made the battlefield bigger maybe that woulda make it too short? (also I can't move the bases back becuase this makes pathfinding harder to fix, and having base close to choke makes rushes harder in most cases.
modified by Nyzse
Nyzse
oh and should I make it symetrical, I thought it would look more "natural" like this but I think for it to look natural I would have to make it more unsymetrical...it's sorta in some weird inbetween state right now ><.
boongee
in all honesty, I wouldn't bother fixing the mineral problem. the map isn't particularly interesting. I'd get started on a new map, or a remake of this.
--v mOsQ
nooooooooobish
Nyzse
Could you atleast tell me why it's bad? If I make another map without knowing why this one is bad that one is going to have the same problems ><.
LaO-Artanis
I could try and help you. Also, Don't pay too much attention to mOsQ. He's the local flamer.

Looks:
it looks pretty natural, but I doubt there's a lake that clean as in your picture. Try adding some dirt in it like you did on the sides. Also, you need more doodads and more spread out. You did some nice deco in the main with the grass, but try and see if you can make it look better, and perhaps have some grass over the mini-cliff as well.

Gameplay:
Those tight paths will simply be Terran heaven. Pushing will be easy, P has no possibility to flank at all. You always need flanking room, or T will own P too much, same goes for PvZ.
Those mineral blocks on the cliff.. I don't like them. They completely destroy pathing. If you put a mineral wall on a path, always do it on a path which if you send units to the other's main base, they'll take the unblocked path. Also, try to limit tank drop spots to a minimum. Look at the "walls" at 12 o'clock for example. You can drop some tanks on that high dirt place and own both mineral onlies, and stop any army from moving through the top pass.

Give some other maps a look, especially look at the MOTW's. Read the articles, and take this advice. I hope your next map will be a lot better, and hope to see you again on this site.
Nyzse
Arlight I have enough stuff to make a few fixes for new version, just need to check a few things...
1) On the bottom I can curve the paths back into the water more to the bottom left and bottom right, but should I make those lead into the jungle area, or back into the dirt? jungle makes it easier to defend, but maybe too easy?
2) I'm going to move the 6 mineral expansions up some and take out some of the high dirt to make the battle field wider, I also want to take it down some but I don't know how far I should take it down would making a line from the two gassess leave the expos suck?
3) I had the rocks in the battlefield to give T a disadvantage by not allowing them to build turrents in their push becuase I realized at first that the small battlefield would make T have an advantage so added in the rocks but if I make the field larger should I give them a few spots to build turrents in the middle?

Other things I'm goign to fix,
1) make it so the straight lines aren't there any more
2) make the right expo not Rax/depot wallable.
3) take out top tank drop areas.
modified by Nyzse
Syrreph
I changed my sn on SC so I figured I'd change it here =P. made most the changes you'll suggested. I forgot to fix some of the prettyness in the base (I'll just save that for next version). And I coulden't really decide on putting another expo where those huge forest's of dudads are (above each of the bases).

edit...
and the obs version has map reavelers, I don't see any obs maps around here like that so maybe that's not the prefered method, but I like to see the whole map when I'm obing. If alot of people complain about it, I'll just give player 9 map reavelers and have that player allyvisioin all players, unless they burrow a zergling in the bottom right corner. So tell me if you think map reavelers are a problem and I'll add that.
modified by Syrreph
TheMan
NIce mape its not rigged at all forces zerg to exp on choke which is a nice balanced for ZvP
Starparty
name it correctly
panschk[FP]
Concerning map revealers:

I did not test it ingame, did you test the triggers? I think it should work without problems the way it is though.

The main reason this technique is not used often is that evil observer could share vision with a player to give him an unfair advantage. Of course this would be easy to prove in a replay, but still some players fear this. Also it is just much more work to place so many map revealers instead of just loading some triggers :D
Syrreph
I'll add the player 9 triggers then so they can't cheat like that.

Also I need to fix a few things I was sloppy on. Left side has a small expo and can't even place CC there, and right side has a wider choke, I'ma make that same size as left side.

edit...
I'll be fixing those in the next hour or so and then uploading it, so if you feel like dling it then just wait an hour or so till 1.2 is up.
modified by Syrreph

edit...
there we go, fixxed few minor problems (last version was just sloppy :()
modified by Syrreph
inept
why does top left have gas and top right doesnt?
Syrreph
Top right, and top left, have a gas.
inept
oh lmao my scroll bar wasnt all the way up. all i saw was the gas top right and nothing on other side ^^
Syrreph
Ugh, I finaly got a good replay for this map but it was a long TvT match so it dosen't fit in the 410k limit (that is a really low limit btw :() and the fact that I was using penguin patched beefed up the size some (didn't know it would affect it THAT much on a long replay though). panschk[FP] should make the rep max size bigger =P 2 meg's atleast =P.
panschk[FP]
...The largest replay file I have is 230 KB.

Well that would be a good test for your skills. Change the limit yourself;)
Syrreph
Yea, but pengiun patch (the pgt program, alters replays and is an anti-hack) bloats the replays don't really know why, game text is stored in a sepereate file, and the clicks are stored in all reps o0. but ok if you will let me change it, will do.
flothefreak
syrreph:
PP doesn only increase the replaysize when having "record fpplay" on. then it saves the replay with the first person-moves. you got to change this in the options to have it normal size.
for your current replay: zip it with winrar as .rar-file and add a ".rep" at the end. so it's small enough to upload. but write in the description of the rep that you added the ".rep" whcih has to be deleted
Syrreph
Arlgiht New version updated, I added...
1) Expansions above both bases in doodad area. Although they are really crappy...
2) Hgih ground area above the gas so that the main base can attack any unit that is attacking the gas, althougth I wanted to leave the element of having to protect that area becuase it is mildly attackable (but still very hard to attack, cause you have to be able to see up there).
3) Added some deco.
4) Made both of the 6 mineral expo's tankable.

And that's about it, replays on this version coming soon!
yenku
lol... PP adds like 800 kb to rep sizes.

Dont be so afraid to change the mains, the ramp and the nat. Maybe have it open to the doodad area, take all that out, its really unnecesary and it doesnt make the map pretty if you think it does.
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