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Last update for (4)Omega : 2006, 08, 01 22:56
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1102 (4)Omega 128*128JK)Valkyrion2.1final

The map has been rated 81 times and got a total of 171 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


JK)Valkyrion
is a new version of galaxy prime and i have also change the name
flothefreak
this is just annoying and doesn't bring you more comments...
you're going on my nerves with this map.
JK)Valkyrion
why annoing?and Still it have not given me a good reason for that this map do not go well. ...
flothefreak
here you are the reason:
the map is not appealing. end of reason.
JK)Valkyrion
But how it does not to interest a map like this, according to me is alone because I did it, if another member of this site make this map, surely it interested.
flothefreak
"the map is not appealing. end of reason."

where do you deduct ANYTHING of it having to do with author?
JK)Valkyrion
this: "the map is not appealing. end of reason." is a stupid reason for a map like this
flothefreak
well, world is unfair.
JK)Valkyrion
y is very unfair...
inept
ok ill tell you why its not appealing, im wasting my time but ok.

gas expos for nats
then you walk a little bit up and theres a gas expo conviently next to your opponent, or if your 1v1ing top vs bottom, a million free gas expos for everyone!

too much money on the map

just a big space in the middle all expos for players are just put on edges of space with no real strategical value


that is why.
flothefreak
there is more...like the lack of tactical possiblities
JK)Valkyrion
much gas lol? there are more gas in r-point so is not a problem

much money same thing....

exp not strategic valure??? the exp are in the same position of the exp of r-point... these I is not valid reasons besides always I can remove a 4 gas
JK)Valkyrion
ah the center i forgotten, u said is big lol u see well or no???? this center for u is big and so in forte what is it? plz VALID REASONS.
Starparty
flo ur getting personal. its obvious its a nice map.
Arden(WoF)
In Forte, the center is lined with four mineral only expansions. These expansions are very open due to the big open center that they are placed in. Battles are forced to take place in the center because of these expansions, and because of this Rose.of.Dream made it very open to allow for masses of units.

Your map however is lacking in any tactical value in the center or elsewhere. people dislike a large, boring, useless center if there is no tactical elements sewn into the fabric of the map.

Think of it this way:
To survive you need expansions, and you also need to harass and/or completely destroy your opponents expansions. This is where the battles take place, at the expansions. A wide center is good, but if the nearest expansion is 2 screens away from the center, then there will most likely never be an epic battle anywhere but on the left-mid and right-mid expansion couples or possibly at the naturals (breaching the bases).

It's just poor expansion placement, that's all. I don't want you to stick 4 expansions in the middle, but if you had organized them a bit better...there would not be a problem. I don't want you to fix this map anymore, just make a new one and be consious of expansion placement.
modified by Arden(WoF)
JK)Valkyrion
this is a valid reason tnx arden. however I want to continue to improve this map, in fund have you had said myself it when had come for the first time of to improve a map rather that to put the much overalls blundered
JK)Valkyrion
fixed some exp
inept
you cant compare your maps to promaps....lmao i was falling out of my chair when you made those comparisons
NastyMarine
nats are not defendable lmfao dont improve this map jus make another idea for a map.. dont use space use a more natural tileset.. .its easier .. space is alil bit more harder to mirror
JK)Valkyrion
nat not defendable lol?the nat in Rush Hour are more difficult to defend of these...., however no i want to improve this map, cuz i like it veri much, cuz there are more away for attack enemy exp, this is not a stalemate.
JK)Valkyrion
more vulnerable = more gameplay
flothefreak
no. that's way too simplified.
consider balance... a open nat is disfavoring t in tvp, z in zvt (well, t in tvz, too, later on, but early is very bad for zerg due to the needed amount of sunkens), p in pvz.
JK)Valkyrion
y i know witch is bad for zerg but in rush hour the natural have the same problem and however it is a between the maps more played
NastyMarine
well i say this cuz its an added con in this map.. cuz u've changed it so much .. went from island mains to like 3 differnt main types and u changed the mid 3 times also... its not a bad map but its jus not catching ne1s attention nemore.

focus on suttin new ull get better if u do
modified by NastyMarine
JK)Valkyrion
i have change the map and fix some exps
NastyMarine
this is getting pretty bad now stop spamming this map. ur making too many changes that arent helping the map at this point. ur changes completely change the map its not worth it nemore .. make a new map!!!!!!
JK)Valkyrion
no man i want to improve this stop-.-, for me now is not bad.
XuuL
i rly dont understand y some ppl like flo are so agressive... this map is not worse as yours flo

it has some nice elements and i think its much better to change a map so long till its good then making one shitmap after another

this map here is fine but still needs some upgrades:
- when u talk about rush hour u have to admit that it offers u some expos which are easy to defend... an exp on a cliff ie... what about making 3 and 9 to a cliff? (maybe switch the directions of the bridges leading towards them and widen the mainbases towards those bridges so the natural is a little easier to defend)
- expos on 6 and 12 could need some borders surrounding em... what about removing those gasmines and make the spaceterrain bigger towards the expos?
- i would change the terrain in front of the bridges near natural to sth where u can build on

hope i could help ya and good luck with yer improvements :)
JK)Valkyrion
oh finaly a player witch help instead of denigrate, ok so :
-for cliff in 3 and 9, y i can make it but they will have to be small
-no i don't want remove the gas but however i can try to sorround a little the exp
-y I had thought about it also ,i will see to restrict it

tnx man
JK)Valkyrion
however in rush hour the natural is not very easy too defend for zerg, like in this map
JK)Valkyrion
impossibile to make cliff on 9 an 3 too small area, however i have sorounded expos in 3,6,9 and 12
flothefreak
this map doesn't offer tactical elements so there is no point in just "improving" it. this would mean to integrate some by all means, but then you're better off with making a new one

the current version looks MUCH better. but it's a _new_ map. so why did he write 10x "changed a tile, comments plz" in the beginning then?

now that's a map worthy improving. nut just 4 mainbases and a open center.

suggestions:
-i think some more buildable space around the nats would be cool. just remove some parts of the solar array
-changing the 3h/9h expos is necessary imo. they're somehow "not fitting in" (look my 2nd sentence in this post) and they look too much like the 12h/6h expos, but those are well integrated. the first impulse tells to erase their gas, sure. but keep it, that makes it interesting!

if you change 3h/9h in a way the expos have tactical value for gameplay (cliff would be easy solution, or think of a cool different setup - but without wasting too much space!), then you have a great stylish map that could easily be MOTW.

did you get help from anybody doing this? if not, you made a giant step regarding your former map called "omega". and yeah, this is a NEW map, no "improvement of the old one".
JK)Valkyrion
ma č proprio quello che volevo da voi, un semplice aiuto per trasformare una brutta mappa in una migliore, non che mi dici not interesting e te ne freghi, solo questo; however:

in the 3h/9h is impossible to make cliff, this area is too small,i should find something of better
JK)Valkyrion
sry i wrote in Italian in the previous post

but it is actual what I wanted from you, a simple help to transform an ugly map in a better one, that not you tell me not interesting and you rub of it, alone this; however:

in the 3h/9h is impossible to make cliff, this area is too small,i should find something of better
flothefreak
i'll make a fast idea how you can make it feel better without doing much
flothefreak
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

that's just an idea. looks weird and newbish at first glance, but it provides something "new".
i cut down the 3h/9h and pushed it towards the center. without gas on them, there'd be only very limited gas, so i decided to put gasnodes there. but those 2 gasnodes each at 3h/9h are both EMPTY. so one is most of the time very vulnerable to your enemy, while the other is on "your side". so taking the 2nd would be useful but dangerous. plus, there is a small dropspot behind the mineralline for some harassing.
the double-empty-gas thing fits in the map because it picks up the mineral-only-theme with only one really "on your side". and there are still some tactical elements involved, like the bridges leading to it and the points mentioned above.
(it resembles trench warfare actually)


and really, there is not much building space on your map. make some room around the naturals and - would be wise imo - around this double-minonlies


/edit
there is some left platform/solar array stuff behind the space holes. they should be gone, too but i was too lazy doing it. if you like my version, i can easily send it to you if you give me your email. would save some work
modified by flothefreak
JK)Valkyrion
why not 1 standard gas(5000) in 3 and 9, like in 6 and 12?
however I did not understood alone thing serve the empty spaces above and under the exps in 3h and 9h
XuuL
i edited the map the way i told about around the base at 10 o“clock

Omega_edit

maybe it helps u ^^
JK)Valkyrion
mmm i don't like very much, the space around the nat must be open and in your edit is very small
JK)Valkyrion
the fix of flo is perfect i like it very much, but only i don't understand the empty space above and under the 3h/9h expos
flothefreak
read the edit of my last post
JK)Valkyrion
k, i have remake your version, i have upload it, tnx for your version flothefreak
inept
hmm well thats the problem with this kind of map. i think this would be better suited for 2v2 because 1v1 you either have

A. A short straightforward game on those bridges which are really a pain in the ass

B. cross positions where it takes forever to get to your opponent.
JK)Valkyrion
actual for this motive the map offers a different gameplay
flothefreak
i liked the double gas...this feels misplaced now imo. one normal gas is not good for this expo position
Arden(WoF)
I don't know...

I don't especially like the "dangerous" mineral onlies. It worked on Trech Warfare because the "dangerous" min only was a shared neutral expansion. On this map, it just seems like a waste of four good expansions...
JK)Valkyrion
for flo: and so is not good also in the 6h/12h hour or no?

for arden: there aren't another spaces for place the four expos in the center
Arden(WoF)
It's true, but they are way too vulnerable where they are now, and it makes them almost useless.
flothefreak
6/12 is okey, those are quite interesting - and they're quite safe so you can dare s.th. like this on the 3h/9h imo.
Arden(WoF)
They do add a bit of flare I suppose. I respect them.
JK)Valkyrion
i have change the position of the 4 expos see now
JK)Valkyrion
ah , i have put 2 gas but are gas of 2500
JK)Valkyrion
perhaps I found, I put the gas to the center of the minerals, should go well now and I can do the same thing also for the exp 12 and 6
flothefreak
the way it was before was much better

put the minonlies back, and use this theme to fit in the 3h/8h double-empty-gas expos. this is my advise.

you're now on the edge:
if you keep the map as it is NOW, it's boring and unappealing. if you integrate this "theme" in your expos (minonly and 3h/9h), it's really interesting imo. i don't know why you changed it at all, it was so good before.



and btw, look gmcs
JK)Valkyrion
ok done
JK)Valkyrion
instead of the empty gas it is not better to put some doodad?
panschk[FP]
Reminds me of prelude of light. Pretty cool.

And now make it final and stop rebuilding it;)
JK)Valkyrion
y pan this is a final version don't worry :D
JK)Valkyrion
flo what do u think about a 3° gas (in the middle of minerals and full however) in the exp 3h and 9h? because there is little gas for a zerg, if this last it is situated, for example in the position of the red and its opponent(terran) is in the position of blue
flothefreak
of course a gas between minerals is possible. but the double-empty-gasexpo has style, fits into the theme, adds tactical possibilities and is something ORIGINAL on that map.
zerg's 3rd gas is quite hard? two empty gases are as effective as one full i guess (it's 1x8 and 2x4?). and it is quite open so zerg is the race that can secure it most easily compared to P/T.

plus: in 1on1, you have the neutral mainbases for gas.
in 2on2, you either spawn next to your ally or on cross positions with him. in the first case, you - no matter where - have a gasexpo between you and your ally's main, which is not too hard then (obvious). on cross pos, well, it's a bit harder, but so it is for your opponents.

i think it works actually, AND is cool as hell


a 3° gas would work, too, but you would give away a lot of style and identification.
flothefreak
that's a bit weird palaver, sry, hope you get what i mean
JK)Valkyrion
y i have understand don't worry, no however 2 gas empty = 1/2 gas full but however is ok for me, is a original idea
LaO-Artanis
flo, depleted geysers give 2 gas, and not 4 :P
Thedutchjelle
Just wondering, how comes everyone likes symmetrical maps so much?

-TDJ
inept
easy to make and there always positionally balanced.
NastyMarine
they are not easy to make... ever make a perfectly symmetrical map? maps like winter devils and kel-morian canyon are perfectly symmertical (except for ramps). those maps can take 2 or 3 days before u can get the terrain right.. and then it takes a couple hrs to get decorations and mineral placements lookin nice (without randomizing mins etc)

(i use staredit)
JK)Valkyrion
all map must be simmetrical but not all are geometrical
flothefreak
no, they don't have to be symmetrical. they just have to be fair in pos. balancing.
lnept
and do you know how much longer it takes to do that on a map like LT nasty...? A LOT LONGER because instead of just copying terrain you have to think how to make it positional balanced.
NastyMarine
ehh u cant say that inept.. u cant... cuz most of u guys hate lt b/c of its different positions.. so why are u embrassing it?
modified by NastyMarine
NastyMarine
i must admit tho that those types of maps are very difficult
JK)Valkyrion
i agree with nasty
flothefreak
lnept lol
LaO-Artanis
You know, this map looks a lot like a rush hour for 4 players. Well done.
JK)Valkyrion
y i know , rush hour is my favorit map, so i decide to remake it for 4 players, but with some difference :D
NastyMarine
no u didnt .. it jus happened to end up that way lol
NastyMarine
u forget how many times u changed this map? this happenend to happen lmfao
JK)Valkyrion
no u are in error man.
NastyMarine
what?
lnept
how can rush hour be your favorite map? you must play zerg -_-

it wont play similar to rush hour at all though.
JK)Valkyrion
zerg? no i'm terran....
JK)Valkyrion
but rh is not my favorite map cuz i'm terran but simple cuz i like it for more way of attack witch offer
flothefreak
rush hour is no zerg map, inept
JK)Valkyrion
other improvements?
NastyMarine
lol noooooooooooooooo .. no more improvinggggggggggggggggggg
JK)Valkyrion
then it is perfect things....
lnept
it can be if you use the 2 directions to your advantage. lurkers flank is very effective against terran when you wait for them to move out and then strike from other direction.

against toss its already shown on statistics that zerg clearly owns protoss
JK)Valkyrion
y two direction offer more way of attack
NastyMarine
it just does.. its basically flanking routes..
extra routes help flanking strategies/tactics.
JK)Valkyrion
so is a quality
JK)Valkyrion
added obs version
JK)Valkyrion
a new version of map for advantage cross position:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2391/4ome3scm1yh.th.jpg
JK)Valkyrion
new picture uploaded, tell me if this version is better
flothefreak
certainly not. why do you try so badly to destroy your good map?
LGI-
True.
JK)Valkyrion
in the old version the cross position are too long and the expos in the center too close

however see the picture no the link in the message
NastyMarine
actually it looks really good .. dont change it anymore.. maybe all this work and changing has done well to ur mapping skillz... but please please please please.. i cannot stress anymore.. make a new map!!!!!!!!!!! seeing this map is getting very annoying.

and fix the name
modified by NastyMarine
JK)Valkyrion
not stupid comment plz...
NastyMarine
it wasnt a stupid comment.. i commended u and thats it.. all i did was give u advice. wasnt made to make u look like an idiot or anyhting..

this thread is doing nothing but pushing to 100 comments at this point. submit it to a motw and end this map's transformation .. its getting outta hand haha
JK)Valkyrion
sry man i have see only : "your comment" write and i think was a stupid comment but now u have modificad
JK)Valkyrion
however i'm undecided between this version and the first version...
NastyMarine
stick with this version - THE END
JK)Valkyrion
i have already done a new map (4)Dark Cup but it resulted doing not interest even if I do not understand the reason
NastyMarine
what?
JK)Valkyrion
u said me to make another map and i have answer...
NastyMarine
alright upload it!
flothefreak
will you keep those bridges now?
a pity. you turned your good and cool map into a 0815-all-pointless-bullshit.
JK)Valkyrion
no flo i have the first version in my editor, i want to see only what do you think about this version

flothefreak
the one without those dumb bridges is like, 100 times better.

two bridges = heidi klum (you should know)
three bridges = alice schwarzer (if you dont know her, you're a lucker)
JK)Valkyrion
I replaced the image of first version, however imo the problem of this first version are:

-cross position too long distance
-mineral in the center they could become useless, and also too close
JK)Valkyrion
for nastymarine: i have already upload it see (4)Dark Cup, but it did not result interesting adn i don't know why...
flothefreak
i dont think the cross pos are so bad here. it is long, but that somehow changes the map in a cool way. dunno, in this map, they dont disturb imo

the minonlys in the center are cool as they are. if you can hold "your", you deny the one of the enemy. what is wrong with laying emphasis on the minonlys there? as long as tanks cannot shoot naturalnexus/cc/hatch from the area around the minonlys, just let the players fight about it ;)
JK)Valkyrion
ok you convinced me: D
flothefreak
if you really dont want those close expos, you could try this

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

it is more standard, and not as stylish as the "old" one, but it would open the middle and divide the minonlys. that would be one way to do it - though, imo it would lose lot of charm :/

btw, at this point, you can check out my new, unpublished selfmade and self-coded new upwards-ramps!
JK)Valkyrion
mmm this last version not attract me a lot, we leave the first version ^^
JK)Valkyrion
if someone want to play vs me on this map ,for test it, i'm there from 14.00 cet to 20.00 cet
flothefreak
it is 23.15 cet now^^
JK)Valkyrion
yy i speak for tomorrow :D
ShaManT
lookin good =) il play on it, i just like it.
JK)Valkyrion
u can find me in euro server channel op teamjk or brood war ita-1
JK)Valkyrion
plz i want some game on this map...
Arden(WoF)
I want to see some games on all of these fresh maps. Although this isn't that fresh =/, I'd still like to see a game or two.
modified by Arden(WoF)
JK)Valkyrion
it is not fresh because it was been unaware of for a lot of time t.t
JK)Valkyrion
shamant plz if u have play on it, upload rep, tnx
LGI-
See GMCS. The reason i suggest this is to make the cross distance more closer. This is the only thing you need. A closer distance between cross positions. If you do that i will give you my vote on the MOTW :P
JK)Valkyrion
done :D
JK)Valkyrion
is ok this change, for other skill mappers?
flothefreak
yap, good idea by lgi
JK)Valkyrion
little change with decoration at 3 and 8 expos, now i like them more :D
the dentist
left/right very close, t>p for those positions... easy push.
JK)Valkyrion
no u can flank the eneymy force easy, from more way.
the dentist
maybe...
Valkyrion
ok flo i have done those changes, should go now
flothefreak
i would like this one more, the current setup is still too awkward ingame:

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

look left upper corner. it's less rush hour then, too. and it is easily done on bottom pos, too - without inverted ramps
Valkyrion
mm nice , ok i work on this, but the mains look too small...
modified by Valkyrion
Valkyrion
done, i like a lot the new version; this map does not end ever of change lol
flothefreak
that is what a good map is about. changing it in major and minor flaws/details until it works
Arden(WoF)
Quite the opposite of what is stated in Comment # 2 ;)
flothefreak
not if you know what i mean. if you create a map, you need a concept or at least some basic thoughts, and then - in your own work and effort - execute it. this necessarily needs larger changes, if you're not extremly lucky and everything fits. still, then you can upload the map here and make final touches and changes with everyone's help.

what valkyrion actually did, was remaking the map TOTALLY over and over again. it never stayed similar to the versions before. which is very annoying and screws any motivation to help. this is like, having no clue and just randomly adding and discarding things until some people give positive feedback. and do you remember what the first "omega version" looked like?
NastyMarine
well put flo.. i feel the same way about this map.

though i must say that this map is pretty sound now. wen i look bak i jus gotta laugh and say to myself that "this was jus a collage of space tileset maps.. and the history of this map makes me wanna jus shit on it lol"

its an accidental map imo lol, and its real name shuld be 4)Rush hour (imo) haha
king of 8 plr maps
Make this a Valkyrion map
like Bob Dylon in his music he made his music and didnt follow other people and now people admire Dylon, he made rock, folk country, hes a legend.

You cant please everyone, some people like rock some like dance, do what you like

modified by king of 8 plr maps
Arden(WoF)
"We dont want Flo ideas on this." Excuse me? If it wasn't for Flo, this map would be in a gutter somewhere. He improved it 80%
king of 8 plr maps
Starparty
flo ur getting personal. its obvious its a nice map.

flothefreak
the one without those dumb bridges is like, 100 times better.

two bridges = heidi klum (you should know)
three bridges = alice schwarzer (if you dont know her, you're a lucker)

king of 8 plr maps
good to see Valkyrion didnt put this flo idea in there.

Valkyrion has better maps then flo, so why would you want flo idea on this.

modified by king of 8 plr maps
NastyMarine
not to diss valk but his maps are lacking stuff here and there, whereas flo usually has a sound idea and concrete beta stages. valk def has lots of potential tho. another note, dont criticize flo about giving suggestions about helping the map. arden is right: "We dont want Flo ideas on this." Excuse me? If it wasn't for Flo, this map would be in a gutter somewhere. He improved it 80%

i may be mistaken but i dont see any of ur king like ideas on this map so dont enlighten us of who is better than who or what maps need..
king of 8 plr maps
Valkyrion should make his own maps, thats how hes gonna learn, flo just making shit out whole thing, hes like insulting this guy then changes his mind then like the map, then finally he helps a little with his so called talent.

flo like trash talking about other peoples maps and making everything personal, mean while most of his maps are boring and not that interesting.

Just becasue flo got Adm privilege hes allowed to go rampant trashing everyone on here, he needs to be dignafied because hes part of the Adm team.
Look at panschk, I respect him.

modified by king of 8 plr maps
NastyMarine
listen king of 8 player maps, flo isnt dissing valk at all.. i think nething that seems insulting is a result of frustration imo

"Valkyrion should make his own maps, thats how hes gonna learn, flo just making shit out whole thing, hes like insulting this guy then changes his mind then like the map, then finally he helps a little with his so called talent."

I started out real slow my first 10 maps and look at some of my maps now.. with-out trying to seem conceited, i feel that i turned into a pretty good mapper.. i owe some of my skills/ideas to all the comments and suggestions here ... and of course it has to do with learning on ur own but there are many spots in which need to be filled and criticism is the best way to fill things that lack in maps and imo all aspects of life.

and actually on another note.. this map was one of valks first on this site and then he reuploaded it again wen it was done, and still made many changes.. so many of these comments are a result of knowing how many changes were made etc.

and yes sumtimes flo can be harsh but get used to it, we are all human, we have opinions..

a few words will some it up for ya:

"it is what it is"
modified by NastyMarine
flothefreak
yeah, i often am harsh, especially when someone is really going on my nerves.

this is also something that really sucks when remaking a map randomly over and over again, without calling it a new map: now, 2000 comments of me criticizing and flaming what doesn't work at all are everywhere in this thread, whcih seems odd because only the last few of them were concerning what is NOW omega. omega rocks btw, i already played on it
Valkyrion
Arden, 80% to flo it is exaggerated...
NastyMarine
other than u valk.. flo is prolly the most active poster for this map lol
Valkyrion
ok but the base of the map is mine...Then I add that I continued the suggestions of flo because it is always attractive to learn from the more experts, but I was able to change it also alone and to obtain a good result however, therefore you stop to discredit my skill of mapper..
modified by Valkyrion
Arden(WoF)
80% may be exaggerated, but he influenced the map a great deal.
Valkyrion
It is normal that someone it have me assistant, we post the maps to be helped, or no???.....
Arden(WoF)
My comment before was directed towards King of 8 plr maps. I'm not questioning your mapping skills, this is still your map.
flothefreak
lol stop battling about such an unimportant issue
Arden(WoF)
I just want to set him straight =/
Valkyrion
it does not seem that you report you to ling of 8 plr maps...however stop with this issue.
Arden(WoF)
I love how you are telling me to stop, when the obvious remedy is to say nothing. gg.
Valkyrion
i haven't tell u to stop.... i said that we can stop this issue.
Arden(WoF)
Agreed.
Valkyrion
it have forgotten to put the author in proprieties :D


  
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