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Last update for (2)Flare : 2006, 10, 06 14:16
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1721 (2)Flare 96*96epidiOn0.2beta

The map has been rated 29 times and got a total of 5 points
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epidiOn
First... yes I know there aren't many expos. It's an endurance map. Late game will be slow income, but steady.

Main = 7 min patches of 1500 and 1 vesp of 5000.
Nat = 7 min patches of 1750 and 1 vesp of 5000.
Min only = 3 min patches of 2500, 3 of 1800.
Corner islands = 3 blocking min patches of 350, one of 749, one of 1640, one of 1820, 2 of 2250. One gas of 7200.
Center expos = 6 patches of 2250, one gas of 5000.

Okay, so it looks a lot like Rubi. What can I say, I found some badly needed inspiration.

The corner expos are islands that are attackable from the outside... so they are rather vulnerable, but the mins will last a while.

There is a way around the middle, but it takes a long time and goes through all of the other expos.

The high ground can attack two expos, but is unbuildable so camping there will be hard. Also, there are three ramps up to it.

Yes, there are a lot of small paths which could favor Terran, but basically the whole map is unbuildable, which should hopefully balance it out a bit.

I also adopted SummerSky's theory from Rubi that there shouldn't be much space to build mass cannons/sunks at expos, so the lava comes pretty close to all the bases.

I think the biggest balance issue would be in ZvT, T will be able to last forever once he gets a 2nd expo, since the minerals are bigger there, and Z won't be able to mass expo.

Ideas/thoughts/feedback?

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that it's 96x96, which should make it interesting.
modified by epidiOn
LGI
epidiOn? Why you never make 4 players maps? I really would love to see one from you or we can both come up whit something.

About the map:

"I also adopted SummerSky's theory from Rubi that there shouldn't be much space to build mass cannons/sunks at expos, so the lava comes pretty close to all the bases."

I LOVE THIS THEORY! I wonder why i didn't see it earlyer. I just hate most of my games when i lose more then 50 limit army couse of sunks/cannons. So this is one big bonus on this map for me at least. Nice tought.

Atm the only issues that i see are blues main is smaller then red. And you better make it bigger, not making the reds main smaller. When you pass blues choke from the inside to the center somehow it's leading to a more open area. Red's choke is a little more to the map edge and somehow it's more close from the outside couse of the nats cliff.

Overall i don't see anything new or special. Most of the battles should be in the center, couse this is the only wide place, since it's an 96x96 map. But i might be wrong, couse i still haven't test it in game.

P.S. What's this mania about making expos around the map whit diffrent value of minerals and gas? Players will hardly notise this and it will only confusing them. Every player is used to the normal minerals and gas value. And when you make diffrent values of min blocks you better make just a few, not the whole map, IMO.

This is not only about this map, latly they are many like this.
modified by LGI
flothefreak
well, how is toss supposed to defend expos in PvZ without cannons? having only 3-4 cannons make some cracklings tear it down like nothing...
LGI
@flothefreak, well i am not a toss user, but many times i play random, so i think i can give an answer to that.

How i defend my expands when i am a toss user vs zerg.

-Nexus
-Two pilons
-One or two gates (depends on space)
-Cannons between Nexus and minerals, and if there is more room i build more behind the gates, BUT NEVER IN FRONT of my other buildings.
-One or two High Templars.
-One or two Dark Templars.

So if zerg comes whit a random army or just a small army, you can stop this whit some micro.

But if the zerg player comes whit more then his 1/2 of his army or his all army even if you had as many cannons as you want, you will lose your expand for sure (ofcourse it depends on high ground/low gorund but in this case it's everything is on low ground).

In this case the only way to save your expo is to come whit your army.

So my point is that it's the same to put 10 cannons on an expand or just 3-4 cannons on an expand whit 2 HT and 2 DT. And many times 2 HT is better then cannons, because you can kill more army then cannons will. It's all about micro in such situations. About the DT, i think they are a must, because if the player haven't got an observer you will slow his attack to your expand, while he get one and this is giving you time to come whit your army and save your expand.

So for defending exp Units > Cannons. For me at least.
Antares
well i think more than 5-6 cannon is just waste, with the help of the vicious dark swarm zerg will tear down any cannons
epidiOn
LGI, I'm doing different amounts of minerals because hopefully it will turn the game away from pure macro style. If I had very few expos but with the normal amount of mins, the map would be mined out very quickly. But since these mins have more per patch, the mins will be mined out slowly. So late game, players might be mining off of 4 min patches because those mineral patches started off with 2250.

EDIT: And LGI, it's because I don't like 4player maps that much, you have a lot less terrain to experiment with as a mapper. And I'm not a big fan of the maps where all bases are in the corners either. And most of all, whenever I try to make a 4player map, it just becomes very standard.

But if you want to do a co-op with me on a 4player map I'd like to try it.
modified by epidiOn
spinesheath
the cannons main pupose is to prevent 12-ling-nex-rapes, and stuff like that. They also provide you the time you need to bring your army there. But cannons themselves never hold off a real attack.
More effective is Gates/Pylons infront of cannons, because the zergs units will try to attack the cannons and can only pass that wall slowly and one by one. This helps to delay the attack, too.

Another duty of cannons is to draw the fire on them and to protect the hts/reavers, because they won't be targeted with a shooting cannon around. Other buildings don't serve that purpose.

The expansions in the middle can't be "equipped" with cans/pylons/gates in a way that would give you much time to bring your army. But in the middle it's not wanted anyways, you want fierce battles there. The other expnasions are not as open. Imo it should be pretty possible to put up some nice time-getters there...
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