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Last update for (4)Deliverance : 2015, 09, 01 00:18
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2092 (4)Deliverance 128*128Arden(WoF)1.0final

The map has been rated 117 times and got a total of 122 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Arden(WoF)
1: I feel like the name is taken already, if not, then wahoo!

2: This is my first attempt at this type of symmetry, so cut me some slack, I'm a noob! ;)

3: I can already tell that I will be changing a lot in this map, so as of now it is in beta stages

4: I don't know whether to remove the between base islands or not... I think it may be a bit too easy to stick tanks there and harass, but idk.

5: I still have testing to do regarding certain things...

6: Min blocks are worth 250 each. and there is a 500 value min at each natural.

7...

Edit: AFDDSRGVHR
modified by Arden(WoF)
flothefreak
-remove corner islands imo
-very tight. are players (in PvT, ZvT, ZvP) supposed to destroy those temples as soon as possible?
-stylish map, i like it
-whats mineralblock values?
-map looks extremely awesome

just my thoughts
Arden(WoF)
Yeah.. I definitely have to remove those island (>.<). I don't think it's that tight... Maybe some testing to confirm.

Edit: Removed the islands
modified by Arden(WoF)
NastyMarine
mapdori map :)

i say 4 min blocks should be 16 and two 32 (at the nat entrances). which brings me to the next suggestion. make the entrances to the nat bigger. I'd also say make the nat entrance have at least a small entrance so a few forces can run thru for rushes. make it unwallable too so there isnt any major turtling.

i also think you should remove the corner islands.

very interesting!
lnept
dont have much to say about the map, changing anything would break the concept, but its very nice

lets see some drops in the disruptor expo and scvs repairing it ftw(if anyone saw that replay on hitchhiker where the guy repairs the disruptor and wins the game that way)
Arden(WoF)
I took your advice:

Nat entrances a little wider - the four middle min blocks value: 16 / the two outer min blocks: 32

And once again, the islands have been removed

@ Inept - does that really work??
modified by Arden(WoF)
lnept
yes
LaO-Artanis
VALHALLA, DELIVERANCE, HAVE YOU EVER FORGOTTEN ME?
Anyway looks pretty good, though it might be a bit tight.
Arden(WoF)
Changed the middle expo buildings to naga temples. they have a lot more hit points, but I think it'l work out ok. And now you can't repair it >.<
Arden(WoF)
"VALHALLA, DELIVERANCE, HAVE YOU EVER FORGOTTEN ME?"

What does this actually mean? Heh...
Nightmarjoo
lol I didn't see any of the older versions, so idk how it changed.
Map looks like gaia and arcadia had a baby, and then the baby got raped by bad pathing oO

purple has imo gas issue -.-

I like the bases between the two players.

The mineral walls I think are retarded, I see no purpose of them, they only worsen pathing and make it easier to turtle in the two nats.

I also like the NW/SE setup.

From only looking at the pic, it does look tight, hard for good flanks, killing those neutrals looks like a necessity.
pvt looks hard, terran can easily lift to the base protected by the 5000 hp building, and turtle in their nats for tons of money without having to leave home at all, and the tightness prevents p from attacking until t leaves =/
lnept
whip out the carrier rush
NastyMarine
i may be mistaken.. but the only maps that you tend to like are ones where you can fast carrier relatively easily.. I see it alot where if you dont say something about it (carriers) then u usually have bad criticism for the map(s)

so wtf lnept
modified by NastyMarine
lnept
so i can embarass you when I play you, as beating you in a standardized way isn't enough.

obviously.


PS: try fast carriering on any of my maps, and you will realize that this is not the case
modified by lnept
NastyMarine
yea mature.. your clearly an idiot
Arden(WoF)
Well, I had a weaker building there, but Inept informed me that Terran could repair it (which I checked, and he is correct), so I replaced it with that... I don't know what else to use other than more temples (>.<). And uh... please explain to me how gas issue comes to mind when you look at purple o_O. The mineral walls are incredibly easy to remove (only valued at 16 each, 32 on the ends). They were originally in place to prevent rushes. And... once you open up the center area by destroying those neutral buildings, I don't think it will be too cramped. Maybe a teeny weency bit, but not enough to call for a drastic change imo... I guess the only way to tell is to test.

Honest suggestions are appreciated - GMCS = godlike
modified by Arden(WoF)
lnept
thanks, i appreciate that you took a minute to insult me. clearly shows that you value me that much to have a minute devoted to complimenting my worst side, and consequently it brings tears of happiness to my eyes whenever I hear the warcry of that wigger named nastymarine. He did that for...my bad side? I wonder what praise you have for my good side?
Arden(WoF)
So.. aside from that >.>

What do you guys suggest I do to fix these issues? What would you like to see done in the final version?
Nightmarjoo
lol nasty, I was actually thinking about lnept's coined 2base or w/e carrier strat =/

"What would you like to see done in the final version?"
Dwebs everywhere! lol or atleast some use of them somewhere ;)

er as for gas issue, I don't like the way gas is to the left/right of top or up/down of left, for gas on top just center it, and gas on left pick up or down, and I think up is faster.

Hmm I would like to see those mineral walls die also.
modified by Nightmarjoo
Arden(WoF)
For the lay of the bases... that gas location works best. You need three peons for all four main gases. It's proven that left and top are most efficient, only separated by a small margin. And the gases are not left/right/top/bottom, they are all either left, or top.

As for the mineral walls, I think what I will do is remove the four 16 value min blocks, leaving the 32's on the end. This will leave a few interesting options, and should satisfy your scouting needs.

I'm thinking of something to do with the center, but idk...

And as for dwebs (>.<) I really don't like to use those things. In theory, you could add dwebs and swarms to every map if you wanted to be creative, but I just dont see any spots that are in dire need of them.
Nightmarjoo
Arden I am completely familiar with the gas issue, and perhaps more familiar with your gas placement than you are oO

Purple's gas is directly top, and to the left a square. Blue's gas is left on the down side, there is no middle for left/right, just top/bottom, and blue's is bottom. Teal's gas is top and square to the right. Red's is left: top.
What I am saying is, top + square to right/left mine differently, and left: top/bottom mine differently, = gas issue, imo. Yes, I'm sure it would be a rather small difference, but is that not what the gas issue is about? -.-
Arden(WoF)
Meh... I really think that stressing something so small will get us nowhere. There are so many maps that have this type of gas layout, why not mention it there? Pro maps played in leagues have similar gas layouts. Why must I be flamed for a .02% difference in mining capabilities? the best I can do with this is raise blues gas one block, lower red's by one block, and center purple and teal's directly above.
Arden(WoF)
Ok..... *Takes deep breath*

I removed the mineral blocks - left two outer 32 value ones (no longer semi island)

I left a gap in the neutral building line and added some different terrain. Also, chopped down the temple walls a bit - changed the buildings to weaker ones - no more pathing issues.

Changed the neutral buildings at the between base expos to temples, they have less than half the health of the nagas (which were overkill).

I also evened out the gas as best I could, given the layout, they are slightly more balanced now.

........any questions? I'm hoping to set it to "final" soon.
modified by Arden(WoF)
Falcon_A
Yeah, I played a couple 1v1's on this last night. One game I got the cross positions and it felt alright (TvP).

The other, I got the close positions (like, 12ish and 2ish), TvZ

It provided for interesting muta harass, and he had the good opportunity to three-hatch (but never really did, I denied him of other expos for the most part and T with 3 expo vs Z with 2 = gg)

But we didn't really utilize most of the map...I got an un-answered expo bottom right, but I don't think we even crossed the mid very often. We're both tooltastic probably D-ish players, maybe me D+, but I think it played well, just some of the new ideas didn't necessarily add to gameplay.
flothefreak
well, i guess most new maps need some playing first until the new features are exploited and really used. i guess players want to come to know the map bit by bit, and they wont start with the out-of-the-box-stuff right away...

but i love this map :D
Nightmarjoo
hmm I like it
Falcon_A
Yeah, I never got to try a 2v2 on it. Bnet pubs are gay about it :x

Anyone wanna play? I ain't too GG, but "play-testing" is fun xD
Nightmarjoo
I'd love to but I don't have internet to my computer atm ><
NastyMarine
wow i just noticed lnepts comment and i gotta say that you really need to grow up.

Nasty = wigger? didn't know that made a difference. does it? i think not. grow lnept really. go off on a tangent once more for the bwmn crowd cuz im lovin' it.

As for the map. I cant believe i missed the edits. This map turned out really good. Go Go MOTW
lnept
i dont think you have the capacity to understand that you are the only one getting angry here.
lnept
and yes ive seen your pic, wigger material
NastyMarine
I'm the only one angry cuz your attacking me. and again, grow up.
lnept
aw dont be like that nasty, who the hell wants to grow up?
LostTampon
very good map
standard map and as always gosu execution

some thoughts:
- mayb those center buildings have too few hps - it seems so that they are there to create a dynamic terrain, but the problem is that those power generators are imo too easily destroyed

- why is a temple blocking the center expos? those center expos look like they will be used only in mid/lategame where are many units used, which will kill these building also too easily
Falcon_A
The power generators were modified. It used to be a wall of Protoss Temples.

People bitched about the tightness, so I guess Arden did that to make things easier to open.

Temple blocking center expos is 1500 hp I think...So it allows the option of someone possibly using the expo as an island and then having an extra wall before your opponent's army gets in, I suppose.
modified by Falcon_A
Nightmarjoo
hmm red vs purple or teal vs blue looks tight. Testing would certainly show whether this map is good and balanced or not...
I don't think anything can be improved though. Maybe make it (2)map^^

I like the way the middle expos are islanded in by the neutrals. I think having them not island would hurt the concept of the map.
LostTampon
@Falcon_A
ah ok, sry when i didnt read all the posts, i lost some motivation to so after i read the posts above mine...
mayb another thought of mine about the side expos (@4 and @10): mayb you could widen their chokes a bit, because i think they are too easily to secure
Arden(WoF)
I was always worried about those positions... The map went in so many different directions during construction, those close positions were a result of bad planning and lack of conceptual ideas ;). There's nothing much I can do about it now, I had a feeling that the downfall of this map would be the close positions.
LostTampon
hmmm... maybe trying to make them to island expos on high raised jungle, where the high ground reaches from one nat to the other?
DG)SpoilR
Honestly,i dont discover in the game serious issues in this map - it plays like Gaia,but this wasnt a surprise.I think to achieve a improvement is pretty hard.With improvement I mean to reach a version that plays significant different than Gaia.The most things are right placed so far i can tell.Also good balanced - but I have no doubts about,even before I start to play it.

The only flaw remains,in my opinion the originality.
flothefreak
make it semi-island again, and close the walls in the center with building. dont try to turn this into a standard map, the whole concept of the map was awesome. i beg you, please restore it...

this wont ever be a good standard map, but an outstanding fresh semi-island map
Arden(WoF)
I am actually considering making two separate versions of this map (three if you count its current layout):

The first would be (as Flo seems to like) a remake of the semi island concept - although I would like to keep those neutrals at the middle-ish expos).

The second would be to convert it into a two player map keeping only purple and teal as main bases.

Having three different versions of this map might be kind of fun =). I'll probably take care of this later... or tomorrow.
modified by Arden(WoF)
flothefreak
make it semi-island again AND keep the neutrals. maybe close the wall with some more buildings...
DG)SpoilR
More neutral buildings - bad idea.You dont wanna become a Arkanoid effect in the game,dont you?
Arden(WoF)
I thought better of those two alternates of the map... The two player one was just stupid (-.-) it didn't work out very well. And the semi island idea is too close to this version for it to be worth it imo =/. The semi island concept was something added later anyway, it wasn't my original intention for this map...

Anyway, as for the edits: I added an obs version, and I fixed the "user selectable" races.
Falcon_A
I think that some of my jackass friends will 2v2 with me on this later.

We're all tired of luna and LT, and they seem like the type who aren't afraid to play new maps because the critters are too scary.
Moebius
What's all this about the last MOTW?

Little late for April Fools... ;)
Arden(WoF)
Because we are reverting to a MOTM system instead. You should check the threads.

Btw... there's no motw icon in here, is that because the feature was removed or something?
LostTampon
hm, the other motw maps have the icon
LostTampon
ah, here it is! :)
Moebius
Why not have both? Best MOTW become MOTM?
Falcon_A
There ya go, have like 3 MOTWs battling it out for MOTM ; P
Nightmarjoo
what's the point of that?
Moebius
More competition = better maps + more maps = more activity = more members = more maps + better maps

I manage my own SC site, so I know how what I'm talking about.

I think it would be a really nice idea to have both.
Nightmarjoo
we already pick 1st 2nd and 3rd place positions. Doing your thing would 1. leave very little time for voting 2. leave very little time for submitting in the first place 3. leave very little time to test 4. As result would drop the quantity of maps as well as the quality. After three weeks of this we would then vote on which of the following shitty maps we want to call motm. No thx.
Moebius
Half of that seems like you just said it to contradict me. If you wanna run the site your way then fine.
Nightmarjoo
Well we'd do your way if it made sense and was an improvement, but it's not, so there's no reason to try it.
flothefreak
nightmarjoo, cool down.
moebius, spamming maps takes the focus off each map published, so they'd be forgotten in 1-2 weeks.
plus, as already mentioned, you'll never be able to make sufficient tests on a map in a week. i played some (2)sevens sins lately, and i was modifiying stuff all the time. you cant do this permanently, esp. if you have only 1 week. besides, i know that many - as i did a long time, too - cant/dont even play their maps ONE time. no way to figure the problems out then
Moebius
Understandable, though I fail to see any problems with having both. MOTW worked out fairly well so far and all this really does is make us all wait 3-4x longer for a new maps.

But I see that my idea isn't being accepted and as such will refrain from further discussion of this topic. Back to the map, which I have no comments on as it seems to have been balanced out at this point.
SpoR
Dunno if anyone already mentioned this but this map looks exactly like python, but with some changes.
Moebius
This was made before Python.
LasTCursE
lol motw is back!! and it's 3 years old xD
NastyMarine
yes! :D
XeLious
Gay/
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arden(wof)
I come back 5 years later and this map is still MOTW. Win.
Freakling
Now that you have bumped this map, you need to make a new one. Site rule. I will come and eat you if you don't.


  
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--AdanU vs DG)SpoilR(1on1, 1.14)
--Lambo07 vs Grief_Stricken(1on1, 1.14)
--Foxxx vs Grief_Stricken(1on1, 1.14)

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