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Last update for (2)Marja : 2007, 04, 03 03:17
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2105 (2)Marja 96*128NastyMarine & TkTkVrooM0.4beta

The map has been rated 39 times and got a total of 14 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


NastyMarine
Ok the map itself is very fun to play. But there is one big flaw. If you send units from one main to another (one click) then they will get stuck because of the neutral buildings at the backdoor so its a problem. But other than that it is a good map.

Backdoor has 2 neutral buildings:
- Psi Distrupter at the of the ramps. (2000)
- Power Generator at the bottom of the ramps. (800)

After some testing, I did make a modification but i will wait to upload it until i hear ppl's opinions. As the other version will most likely make it play alot different and the distances will be alot shorter.
tktkvroom
yeah me & nasty had sex on this map, btw pathing problem shouldn't be problem unless you're noob & have 90 apm. Ever played Peaks of Beakdu? Sin Pioneer Period? Blitz?
flothefreak
who ever said bad pathing was okay on those maps?
modified by flothefreak
NastyMarine
right. My defense: It has been accepted among the 'player community' :)
modified by NastyMarine
RaDiX
It's good, decent map.. Just doesn't turn me on that way ;).. It's pretty simple.. It's not bad thing, but this map wont be a revolution or something like that :-)

ps: Marja is finnish and means berry ... :)
Nightmarjoo
Marja is the name of the dutch girl tk has a crush on -.-

I don't like the map at all. The nat is pretty hard to defend as zerg.
The middle is horribly open.
The mineral onlys are too close to be fought over, either one player will have both, or neither players will have one.
No place to hide an expo, further hurting zerg...
All the gas except for the main/nat is at the top, in three expos very close to eachother, and in a rather tight area. The expos are too close, just the like mineral onlys, and the tightness of the region horribly favours t imo.
The main's shape is awkward, and doesn't flow with the two entrances.
In the bottom half, exlcuding the nat, there are no expos. The mineral onlys are too vulnerable and too close to be strategically valuable. If this was the map, t would be in big trouble, and the lack of expos would only further hurt zerg.
The top half of the map encourages turtling too much, looks hard for pvz, zerg could expo and turtle like Savior too easily.
Why is the bottom so useless? So open and has no vantage points, no strategical value to anything...
The double ramp of the main to nat looks annoying, just gives tanks more strength =/

Um, I don't really see anything I like here. As for what I suggest to improve it, well not much which would keep the concept(s)...
I guess make the nat a little less open, or use neutrals or something to block some of the space so zerg can defend its nat against terran. Move the mineral onlys into the more open area, and add some security. Maybe even add gas, to make the bottom half of the map worth something. Or, I got a better idea, how about keep the mineral onlys there to keep that part of the map usefull for something, and add two expos with gas to those indentations on the side of the mains in the middle. This pulls the gameplay away from just the north. Maybe redo the main ramp, make it larger, so it'll be easier to move troops through the main to get from the bottom to the top, otherwise it'd be hard to defend both top and bottom... And perhaps redude the size of those two hills, so there's more room in the north; or give them an expo to make them worth all the room they're taking up -.-
lnept
i have 80 apm and i will rape you 9 ways till sunday tktk, so owned Tt

if this map gets past main/nat ill quit bw. pvt/zvt you have to be amazingly better then your opponent or cheese them to death
tktkvroom
Inepts comment makes no sense & as for joel I'll let Nasty talk to you, I could but aren't a big fan on explaining things. Besides game plays totaly opposite of what you explained just watch reps
Nightmarjoo
lol tk has like 150 apm, he's a good example of apm being meaningless.

o and I forgot to add something on the lines of: wtf is with fucked pathing? Flo is completely right. Nasty, it's not surprising that tk would fuck a map's pathing, but you? =/
tktkvroom
flothefreak
who ever said bad pathing was okay on those maps?
modified by flothefreak

Who complains? 90 apm noobs?
150 apm good example of apm being meaningless meaning I can control my units & not just attack main on mini map?
lnept
pathing or not this map is terrible, so who cares
Lancet
This is the first time I have seen a neutral building on top of a ramp! However, it does not show on the map when you try to play it.
tktkvroom
yeah it does
Nightmarjoo
yeah tk a 90 apm noob would complain about pathing. Big strong 150 apm people who get RAPED ez by 90 apm noobs don't have to worry about pathing yeah.

tk someone who ignores the gameplay by creating bad pathing is a bad mapper. Also, don't compare your maps to pro maps, despite their flaws, there are good reasons why they're pro. For example, a concept in baekdu which creates pathing issues is the narrow middle path. This path is there only so early game/rush tactics are not destroyed, and so scouting is not damaged. As for pioneer, there's a reason why no one plays it -_- and blitz was replaced pretty quickly by blitzx for a reason also.

As for your 150 apm, your micro is horrible, I don't know how you get such a high apm with such bad micro and bad macro. Your unit control is appalling, so I'm sure it doesn't get past bad pathing.

o and lol at tk/lancet, who is right? ><

tk, you arguing that players should just work around bad pathing very obtrusely shows your incompetence/misunderstanding in mapping. I think you need to be much more elegant in all things related to mapping if you ever want to catch someone's eye with your maps =/
NastyMarine
joel i think u are talking too much about the players and not about the map :/

as for the pathing, yes its bad for our standards. and yes it should be changed.. and it has in the second version.. but disregarding the pathing, i think the gameplay is very unique and i think you guys arent giving the map set up enuff credit.

the map shows a lot of promise i think you are forgetting there is a back door which gives a lot of options to players.

the main base size/shape is actually pretty fair. it has really good macro room and the backdoor, despite bad pathing is well placed.

As for Z defending the nat, it is EZ. I gues u havent watched any of the reps or at least the first one. you can see easily that Z is fully capable of defending the nat with ease.

I do agree that the top of the map is crowded with expos but i dont think its a good idea to remove any of them just because it will hurt gameplay... players may need to use it late game.

We cant add a 6 oclock expo becuase it would be too powerfull to T in TvP and even in TvZ or TvT.

I will await more comments before reuploading the new edit.
modified by NastyMarine
lnept
i bet i would even lose to you nasty on this pvt, just slow push to my nat its like 5 inches away.

tktkvroom
well all your smack talk sure doesn't get backed up on bnet inept you dodged me. As for joel......LMAO raped? sure I'll admit you raped me......back when I was playing like 1 game a week, now what I've been trying traing playing more I wouldn't call it rape. Have you even played the map yet? Did all 100 of your hatches fit in the main? as for micro, its called running not micro from someone who uses the same strat every game uses 100 hatches to mass a unit then send them to me. As for macro idk but if you know of some kind of mineral hack I can't really make anymore units when I dont have money to spend. Play the map, I can't anymore lost my internet on computer so can only use gpas comp, & it sucks wanker so all I Can pretty much do on it is ob.
btw your mico isn't what I'd call perfect either joel just I'm not going to tell everyone about it.
modified by tktkvroom
NastyMarine
i really dont understand why u guys are talking about playing vs eachother. lnept playing vs me has nothing to do with the map. Joel, Tk, what does playing verse eachother have to do with the map? save it for an aim conversation jeez.
tktkvroom
I didn't bring it up I'm just telling him go play the damn map
tktkvroom
I didn't bring it up I'm just telling him go play the damn map
lnept
apparently playing racewar and diplo with friends is now called dodging. or are you accusing me of driving a dodge? either way, this map sucks, yet again.
flothefreak
hah here we got him! you dont have any friends.
NastyMarine
that says a lot coming from you lnept.
tktkvroom
lmao ok ok enough hate talk get back to the map :l
Nightmarjoo
lol tk, it's not like I had to try when playing you. No I haven't played the map, don't have my internet, and couldn't watch reps either because of that.

lol and lnept would steam roll you easy =/

As for the map, nasty addressed a few of my comments which I can't backup not being able to play the map, but many of them haven't been. tk, what do you think of my suggestions?

"save it for an aim conversation jeez" lol me and tk are nice to eachother on aim :)
flothefreak
it's the page! bwmn is changes people into haters! GRRRRRRRRR
lnept
maybe your just overly sensitive, I like the people but not the map. who cares if people hate on inaminate objects. but if tktk is gonna come and say I dodged him, certain disclaimers must be taken o.o
tktkvroom
fucking shew]i[ will stomp me now. I lost my sexy comp now I'm on some shit Dell with gay slow response keyboard & a ball mouse with a gay desk that is all stupid & shit. & what suggestions Joel I all read from you was you suck you have bad macro micro & I rape you
Nightmarjoo
Yes, as always, you ignore the part where I make suggestions: I spose that isn't too unexpected since I write a lot and it is always at the end of the long post =/

"Um, I don't really see anything I like here. As for what I suggest to improve it, well not much which would keep the concept(s)...
I guess make the nat a little less open, or use neutrals or something to block some of the space so zerg can defend its nat against terran. Move the mineral onlys into the more open area, and add some security. Maybe even add gas, to make the bottom half of the map worth something. Or, I got a better idea, how about keep the mineral onlys there to keep that part of the map usefull for something, and add two expos with gas to those indentations on the side of the mains in the middle. This pulls the gameplay away from just the north. Maybe redo the main ramp, make it larger, so it'll be easier to move troops through the main to get from the bottom to the top, otherwise it'd be hard to defend both top and bottom... And perhaps redude the size of those two hills, so there's more room in the north; or give them an expo to make them worth all the room they're taking up -.-"
tktkvroom
gotta talk it over with nasty
Replays


--NastyMarine vs nS-g.Naruto(1on1, 1.14p)
--Chopper]i[ vs n3gat1ve]i[(1on1, 1.14)
--Chopper]i[ vs Relianced(1on1, 1.14)
--Chopper]i[ vs YelloW]i[(1on1, 1.14)

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