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Last update for (2)Pale Horse 1.4 : 2009, 04, 27 14:19
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2180 (2)Pale Horse 1.4 128*128Nightmarjoo0.2final

The map has been rated 61 times and got a total of 14 points
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Comments:   GMCS (4 elements)


Nightmarjoo
lol I'd have used more spells, but I hit the sprite limit with trees and couldn't make more, and I didn't want to delete trees ><

Now I'm sure someone will whine, oh noes Nightmarjoo now half the units in sc can't attack because of the sprite limit is full! What noob came up with that garbage? It's just not true. I made a game massed valkyries and opened fire, they all shot all their missiles no problem.

Hush spines, the critters are pro.
tktkvroom
not worth commenting atm :/
Alumni
oOoh the map looks pretty!
... except for the overload of critters

"And in other news, the remaining ursadons (polar bear's ancestors) have now officially become extinct as two alien races have reportedly landed on the arctic reserve/park and battled it out killing all the animals protected in the area with their warfare. This is indeed a sad day for animal lovers."

hahaha
modified by Alumni
Nightmarjoo
erm pretend it looks like an ugly piece of shit, what about the map itself?^^
Alumni
i think it's creative that instead of doodads to make the area untankable you crowded it with critters then blocked them in with min patches haha. (still raises a tiny concern about when in gameplay and the ursadons move around that maybe once in awhile people CAN successfully drop a ranged unit there to harass :S probably too much effort though if you sufficiently crowded it) The other free critters though, i tihnk you could reduce the amount but not eliminate them all because it'd be annoying to try and exp and be like "you cannot build here"

do trees get in the way of units on ice world or can you build stuff on top of land with trees? because you have a tree right in the middle of the nat choke at the bottom base. is it intentional for sort of a double choke? because i think i see a doodad instead of a tree in the middle of the nat choke on the top base.
modified by Alumni
NastyMarine
the map is exceptional joel. really god like. THough, get rid of the swarms! purify this map please. oh and remove some of the tree clutter and a few of those critters near the nat entrance. Great map though. has a very unique layout and it is executed perfectly.
Phantom[xz]
It's still easily tankable, i mean just unload shoot some ursadons and drop there. Also you might want to fix the top right of 3 o'clock as there is a small gap for tanks which is blocked off by trees at 8 o'clock.

Other than that, it's good art ^_^
Nightmarjoo
O yeah I missed that, thanks storm.

lol thanks nasty, but I really think you're exagerating >< Also, I like the swarm. It keeps the expo from being too defensible imo, but certainly it doesn't make it too hard to defend. Well I think =/ Protoss can't defend with cannons vs z effectively, so either ht/zlots would be needed to defend it. Terran would need firebats to defend it from zerg, but their tanks/mines would work fine against p imo. Zerg sunks will miss under this too, but I guess they could leave a lurk there, but a dt/storm/irradiate takes care of that.
tktkvroom
This map tells me you were planing on making ppl laugh or something or map making is a joke. OBVIOUSLY get rid of atleast 75% of the trees in open areas so they dont get in the way. Trees along the edges of cliffs or water etc. are ok. Then highlight all the urasons & click delete. Then add maybe 2-4. There is only 1 mineral only maybe change the 9 & 3 expos to mineral onlies. If you're gunna but spells into a map use more then 2 or its just gunna look dumb & be useless. Now if I was a queer T which is basicaly every T player, I'd wall myself in at the spots I mark as xXx on GMCS 1st to take the mineral only behind your base then I'd move up to the spots marked XXX on GMCS & take 2 more expos up on the high ground seeing as how they are basicaly not open anywhere else 1 way in 1 way out. As for the map its just a main to nat to open middle to nat to main, no flair to it or flanks. Also Very white hurts the eye in game. Maybe add a ramp then a bridge connecting the mineral onlies behind base to the isolated expos in the far back on the highground. shizzle I'll post more once I can get back on computer some day, mom is in nazi mode atm. Good work though Joel map looks quiet mirrored & isn't flowing with spells, well it is with animals but those you can change.
bogmonster
the only things i want to see go are the swarms
Nightmarjoo
I think the swarms are fine, I think the trees are fine, I think the critters are fine. I don't know if the map favours terran, haven't had a chance to test it at all. As for the middle, besides remove some of the nat cliff wall there isn't much I can do to open it.
tktkvroom
how can you say animals are fine??!?!?!!??!?!?!
Alumni
cmon man, majority of people are hatin on those critters near the nat and min only! you should try testing it with all the critters and trees and the swarms in it to see how it plays and prove our theorycraft wrong! hehe
modified by Alumni
Lancet
Don't criticize Nightmarjoo for the critters, I mean, remember his other map, what was it, gangbang 3600 ft? Ooops no, it was Shusan Day, at one point it was all full of scantids, in this one it is bears. So you see, he is moving up the evolutionary ladder!

Nice map, the swarm should stay but I think it will be away from the main action.
ProTosS4EveR
Critter's world domination :/
Excalibur
Its unique, and that is why i like it.
:)
flothefreak
imo it is unique in execution style, but not in gameplay...just blend out all that messy terrain/doodad/critter-stuff, and you have a kinda solid macromap, with quite secure expansions.

i dont think it will play dynamic...it will be all about a large fight i guess
tktkvroom
atleast put it under experimental -.-
spinesheath
Neo Crazy Critters? :p
Testbug
pale horse?
Alumni
probably 'pale' for the map being on ice world tileset and horse probably from the water terrain design, resembles a bit of a horseshoe? *shrugs*
Nightmarjoo
My map names rarely have anything to do with what's in them.
Moebius
Hm...too many critters...reduce them by about 75% at least.

Other than that, it's great. At least since it's late and I'm too lazy to look for details...
Nightmarjoo
1.1 edit: critter density more closely resembles the population density of russia -.- Mineral formations are less retarded than before, and I filled in that hole with some trees.

I am considering connecting the swarm expos to the mainland via larger than normal ramp and some land crossing the water. I am shit with actually making stuff, anyone want to help me make both an inverted and non inverted larger ice ramp?

o and some shitty reps added.
Excalibur
Any extended terrain you need, ill do my best to help. AIM me.
Alter.Ego
I <3 this map. :]
flothefreak
nah...i dont like about this map that every player has his "half" of the map.
Nightmarjoo
lol thanks Alter.Ego. But I think flo is right, I have a decent edit in mind for the map that will help its playability and gameplay a lot imo, but I haven't taken the time to execute it. At the moment this map is just kind of a pretty map is all it has going for it imo =/
Alter.Ego
I hope you don't redesign it too much, it's fun to play :)
Nightmarjoo
lol you've played it? I've only played it those two times where I uploaded reps^^ btw I would love reps if you uploaded them ;) And comments on what you like in it, so that I don't mess up something good when I update the map, if I ever do :)
Alter.Ego
Well, it has a nice middle battle field, while you still have relatively safe expos. And the critters are fun really, some times you have to kill 2-3 of them, just to place your building where you want, or to create your expo.

Those little things and the nice deco of course.

I'm yet to win a game on it thou, which is solely because of my lousy gaming skills :)
Nightmarjoo
I was concerned that the center was a bit too tight for pvt, that a solid terran push might be too strong, is this concern unfounded?
Alter.Ego
well, you can widened it a bit, but then you'll prolly have to put something in the middle, so it's not _that_ wide.
it looks tight, but it's not too much
Nightmarjoo
Edit -> 1.2
Added path from the area outside the nat to the side expos.
Removed swarm from back expo since it no longer is out of the way.
Fucked up some tiles with my noob tile editing skills :)
Added kakarus :D
Some trees removed :( I no longer hit the sprite limit :D

Tell me what you think. And I'm up for games :) OP TEAMBWMN @ Europe!! :)
Nightmarjoo
Edit -> 1.3
Swarms added to 3rd and 4th expos to hurt/discourage turtling.
Nightmarjoo
Edit -> 1.4
2nd entrance added to nats, at full size it is rax size, but 2 mineral blocks make it half a square sized; if you can't defend/block half a square consider quiting bw.
Mineral values edited: Main values are 748, 840, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1300, 1200, 840, 748; this is pretty low. Backdoor mineral only is 1000 for every. The center expos are 3000 each, and I believe the rest are default 1500. This is not set in stone, I may tweak these mineral values, especially the 3000 one, as the 2nd nat entrance may have made that an obsolete edit.
The swarms currently have been untouched, I may or may not keep them (I probably will take them out to form a more standard map).
flothefreak
hm, pathing? ;S
what are minblock values? many zergs will have trouble defending another entrance like this when expoing.
Nightmarjoo
16 each. It's such a small opening, guarding it will be no problem, I'm sure. The first sunk is usually to defend both nat and main anyway, so positioning it to guard the new path won't change much if anything. And scouting will tell you what path they're using. Rushhour is harder to defend the nat than this imo.
flothefreak
yeah but can you defend a terran m&m group (like, 12-18 marines from a sunkbreak build) from RUSHING BY your sunkens there? you already need sunkens to the front for the normal attack route, but i dont think you can afford 3 sunkens at the back as well
Nightmarjoo
lol so your scenario is, you suck hard, and terran comes in with troops, what do you do!? :)
flothefreak
no. you have never seen reps where zerg builds (needs to build) up to 3-5 sunkens in a row at the front?
well, and what's about the backdoor then?

this isnt a weird scenario, for gods sake. if you want to be taken serious with your terran scenario on Thesis, then fucking be open to equal approaches to your map.
Nightmarjoo
Zerg really only ever needs to make that many sunks when he either scouts a 3rax before expo, or he teched fast and is waiting on defilers and is turtling. The odds of scouting 3rax before expo are very low, so you're likely to die anyway if you don't have the lings/speed to stop it. The thing with a narrow path that hurts zerg is that if marines come through that way lings can't surround them, especially if a bat is there too. But intelligently placed sunks can guard both sides, and anything coming through the narrow path will be in a single file line. If you want to block the path off, can just put one sunk directly in front of the path.

Usually, even on rh3 with a far more vulnerable nat, 3 sunks is plenty if your build is stable. If it's not, then 4 usually does the job unless they bring in tanks. However, then you can use your backdoor to your advantage, he can't block both paths without weakening his force. If you aren't strong enough to break either one, then you'd have lost in that situation regardless of the map.

Now obviously this needs testing, but from my zvt knowledge there is no issue here. zvt is my best mu.
flothefreak
well i am no zerg, nor terran, i only consider what i know from many progamerreps, where 3+ sunkens is common. at least in many replays i watched
Nightmarjoo
The only thing I can say balancewise so far, is zerg should be ready zvp to fight 2gate with the distances being as they are.
NastyMarine
i still say you should remove those trees (too much clutter), remove the critters, n take out the spells!
Nightmarjoo
Didn't I already say I took out the spells? Guess not. Well I did, but it might be an older version uploaded. I didn't see any imbalances or issues with the swarms until someone on tl wanted to know how zerg beats reaver/sair, for which of course I didn't have a practical answer :)

From my few games, the trees have not been an issue at all. Nor have the critters.
Nightmarjoo
Played a tvz, he said the nat was perfectly defendable, he said especially because you can flank easily with the double entrance.
On the down the side the distances seem really short =/
But if you want a more micro oriented map, then the short distance definitely promotes that^^ Eh map seems hard for terran with small main minerals, and short distances. idk, I need comments/suggestions/feedback/testing/theory crafting, anything, I'm at a loss here as to whether or not the map is ok, judging your own map is hard.
Nightmarjoo
I have an idea for this map, I might make a Pale Horse 2 soon, don't know how similar/different it'll be.
MorroW
maybe make Pale Horse 2 with 50 karakus instead of 200 polar bears?:D
JungleTerrain
We have inverted ice ramps now! :)
modified by JungleTerrain
Crimson)S(hadow
someone show this map to tasteless, i bet he'd smile
Replays


--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs chard[hcfm](1on1, 1.14p)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs chard[hcfm](1on1, 1.14p)
--BWMN-Mayhem vs BWMN-LyrA(1on1, 1.15)

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