|My next map. Still in beta. Decoration will come soon. The only thing i think is, that the middle is a little bit too big. Any suggestions???|
|I like it man...middle looks ok but u cannot trust my word |
Addition: It actually looks like there are too many chokes
modified by Deathman101
|Map looks really good really, I couldn't really make anything better ^^|
|middle too open, natural too open, no good expo layout imo.|
|where should i put the second gas expo? Updates will come soon.|
PS: Who the fuck rated this map with 0???
modified by ptar
|The middle is perfectly fine flo.|
-Decorated the map (maybe overdone a lil bit^^)
Any ideas about the balance are welcome.
|You're improving as a mapper a LOT.|
Some things I see:
tk sized mains^^
I think the middle will probably be fine, but testing is necessary. But one thing I do suggest, I feel the map would feel better if that mineral only was on highground; maybe alter the highground a bit to fit it well.
Decoration looks ok (no such thing as over doing it).
The nat does look too open, try and restructure it a bit so that it has a choke or something, it's just kinda there atm.
idk who voted it 0 the first time but I can tell you who voted it 0 the second time ;) Whining about the ratings is pretty silly, it means nothing: exemplified by half my older maps which are rated -1337 (please do not alter lol). I always insta 0 rate anytime someone whines about rating =/
Map looks nice, but could use some testing and some alterations. imo your best map, and your maps are getting better every new map you make.
|Didn't played the map yet. Gonna test it tomorrow. Thx about the rating :)|
|ptar, you are really improving man. i think this is your best map yet :)|
|oh sweet map!|
but too many doodads man!
remove thos bones! xD
-tk sized mines :O
-and yeah the nats are too opened, the 12 one can't be defeded with turrets, and the choke is more pened than loki. you can't defend both frond and side, becouse that geyser needs to be protected. you'll have to redo the nats.
what about making the low ground bigger, and the wide ramp where those high trees are.
it will be ok if ramps starts where the trees are.
NW and SE multies are hot!
what about a more natural center area? with some trees and rocks, not thos robotic things.
and use some pure high dirt somewhere! you use grass+dirt anywhere!
you forgot the rocky ground near some ramps, NW can have nice rocky ground but you'll need to remove some asphalt at SE.
i really like this map, you can test this map with you if you want.
|this is a tk style map except this is in jungle ;)|
The map seems solid, though i'd change the 2 ramps that lead to the mineral only and nat. I'd give put one large/wide ramp (roughly 4 ramps put together) and one regular sized ramp.
its a solid map and i like it :)
|Nasty thinks all my maps are like tk ones. I didn't ever thought of that. Actually i wanna make the korean style. |
Will change the gas to the other side and gonna try to make the natural less open, but if you look at Rush Hour for example, the naturals are as open as these ones are.
PS: Testbug is a little doodad and design fanatic ^^
-Changed the min only to highground expansion
-moved the geyser at the natural expansion to the left side
-Changed the sizes of the two ramps and moved them nearer to the natural
-removed the doodad, that Nasty pointed out in the GMCS
modified by ptar
|natural is better (dunno, maybe still a bit too open...playtest this). expansion layout is okay and nice now. the middle would need a small cut-down somewhere between your own mineral only and the enemy's large ramp.|
|Do you mean some lowground between the min only and the enemy's large ramp?|
|nah, the highground. lol i will just mark where you should install some obstacle^^|
|Ahh... ok i'm going to edit it. thx |
€dit:Added some big rocks as obstacle.
modified by ptar
|haha it may be a bit bigger to actually work^^|
areas on the pic are most of the time bigger as they may appear (talking from experience). i would rather implement something of approx. this size/form:
of course it's still your map, and i dont claim perfectness of my ideas/suggestions. so if you dont think like this change would improve the map, just toss it.
modified by flothefreak
|I think this is a little big too big^^. I wanna have a big battlefield and i think this will split it too much.|
|have you checked how huge your battlefield is ingame?|
|Sure. I think this is big enough. Had a 180/200 battle on it and i thought it's a lil bit small^^|
Think the big rocks are enough. The do there job i think.
PS: btw. Did you played it?
modified by ptar
|Ok, maybe there isn't anything you can do with the nat, but perhaps if you want to leave it like that then you ought to make the ramp face into the nat rather than to face outside the nat.|
|lowground minonly was ok, and was better.|
giving a 3 expo las Arcadia (and the gay azalea thing)
tanks will abuse that log/hig dirt combined unwalkable thing (and because it's near a ramps)
and the bridges are so tight, tanks are too powerful in the choke.
because the center is that opened, tanks won't be that strong and can be flanked.
i would change it back to lowground, and use a wide ramps where south has a tree blocking the path from north wide ramps to south minonly.
but north minonly doesn't have a blocking tree infront of the choke, so south wide ramp is infront of it.
you has 2 trees in the old version, i recomended you to make the low ground some bigger placing the ramps far away.
but now the low ground is too small!
AND YOU FORGOT THE ROCKY GROUND AGAIN
|I think the natural is ok. It's not that open, you have space to place bunkers turrets sunkens and so on. In my test games the nat was easy to defend. The only difficult is the backdoor bridge. But I think this will offer more strategical options. Maybe will upload some replays. |
modified by ptar
|vs comps? lol|
I think I prefer the highground mineral only than the lowground one, it forms a better transition and helps terran in tvp. There's no reason why a lowground mineral only would be better in any way.
|I played vs some random guys on b.net. Forgot to save the replays :/ but i will play some more. |
Testbug: I think the highground min only is better. Terran won't be able to block both entrances and the bridge. Will add some rocky ground later on. ^^ Still in beta.
|yap, highground minonly is certainly the better way. for the natural, make high level ZvT/PvZ the instrument of judging. decent players will harass to death, unless you make 7-8 sunkens/cannons.|
|Damn, if you had said it a lil bit earlier :( Only boring ZvZ on Luna.^^|
|Where will they harass?? The Bridge can easily be defended and the two entrances are like in every other map i think.|
|because marines can shoot from all sides. on higher levels, marines are used to shoot everything unprotected they can - and they have plenty of room here to harass where you'll need sunks. you need to sunk up your ramp, the front and the side of your nat....|
|You only have to secure the bridge and the big ramp. |
The little ramp and the choke can easily be defended out of the main base. You need 4-5 sunks. (my opinion "not such a gosu one")
|zergs nowadays build ~5 sunkens in ZvT on Longinus - check out its chokesize at the entrance of the natural.|
|Ok it's a lil bit smaller^^. But what should i change to avoid it?|
|it's your map! best way would be with terrain/doodad/minblock :o|
worst way: neutral
|I gonna try it with doodads and terrain. Think neutrals and min blocks are ugly.|
|lol 4-5 sunks longinus zvt? I usually make 0, 3 at the most if they're being agressive, but all terrans FE on longinus = no reason to lose drones to sunks =/|
|i dont play longinus usually, but that's what i saw in some pro reps i DLed recently. and maybe your opponent arent aggressive enough, if they always FE...|
|sorry to bring this back...but flo's idea for the middle is PERFECT. right now the middle sucks ass. this isnt a big army map...|
|Changed some things:|
- Added some holes in the middle of the map
- Changed the mineral formation in the mains
- Tried to tighten the choke a lil bit with some doodas
More decoration will come soon and i'm gonna edit the choke a lil bit, so you can wall-in easier. I think the mains aren't that big. Pls give me some comments about the changes and other suggestions i may have forgotten.
- More decoration
- Some more holes in the middle
modified by ptar
the force is with you young ptar
but you are not a jedi yet.
you natural is too opened and you can't fix that.
then, what about a minonly, so you don't need space for the gass and it will become more defensable.
because NW and SE are that far for both players.
no1 will go there. atention is contentrated in the high ground.
what about a double geyser so moving the game to the corners?
that unwalkable high/low ground in the ramps only favours terran.
and terran can abuse that southern center holes+tree
northern tree is not that close.
woundn't you wider the bridge?
(and if you want some decorationt timps :D make the ains only high dirt, not dirt+grass) :)
movement from SE ramp to red main is hyrt by that water.
movement from NW ramp to blue main is hurt by that watter.
you should do some more tatural execution.
looks like blue got a tank spot near the that doodad.
i'll test yout map using compuer ;)
what i recomend you is to place some xel naga temples or mineral 0 fields or unwalkable bones/rocks in the center.
i found an unbuildable skeleton in the red main!
near the start location.
some between the geyser, and where you will build a comSat.
yeah and you got a lot of tank drop problems.
guess you can fix/balance 'em all.
what i found it the NW and SE ramps won't be used never.
that way is longer than using the others ways.
and movement is hurt by that water.
WHAT I FOUND IS THAT NW CAN BE TANKED!
modified by Testbug
|Huh, that are a lot of things :) Thx for the suggestions, i gonna edit the map. Maybe i've got another idea how to make the natural less open. I maybe gonna change the choke, so that it will lead into the natural. In my test games every player used the NW and SE expos. They are easy to defend and you can get to them realy easy. You only have to cross the bridge. What do you mean with "and terran can abuse that southern center holes+tree", you can't drop in the holes, i think. I will update the trees. Why should i add some Xel Naga Temples in the middle?Of course, i will resume this skeleton in reds main.I will fix the dropspots, but i don't understand what you mean with the water and the last sentence.^^|
THx for the ideas
- Removed the unbuildable bone in the main
- Removed the dropspots (i may have forgotten some of them)
- Moved the minerals nearer to the choke.
The gas at the natural, don't block units.
@ Testbug : The water is fine, i tested it. It don't hurt the movement.
|i dont like the holes in the center :/|
|because that holes are unbuildable, terran will park there (park? you know, go there and stop mobing, and maybe switching to the soiege mode) and protoss dragoons will be hited and will have to go all around because that holes are unwalkable.|
you have unwalkable terrain near the wide ramps
unwalkale thing + ramps really favours Terran.
now you have unwalkabvle in the center!
thats double advantage to terran.
remove the holes in the center and add some Reverse Temple Xel Naga, so Protoss can open the middle with a big army (and terran still have where to hide)
north unwalkable (near wide ramps) is not the same as southern.
and the sentenc about the tree.
in the center u have 2 holes (the hole Nasty and me are telling to remove) ok, the some southern has a tree and terran abusing the holes there will have the tree bounus.
northern tree bouns is not that near, you can cleare notice distance diferences.
and movement at SE and NW "IS NOT NATURAL" it hurt movement! just start going up and down! it's really bad! just remove some water!
YOU FORGOT ROCKY GROUND AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RAMPS!
and the choke is really opened. zerg will build 1st sunken colony near the main ramp to preent marines running from the minonly ramp to the main.
but now marines can easily get the bridge and attack the drones.
and for decoration... mains really needs to be only dirt.
i would remove the grass in the mains.
what do you think?
i'll test your tank drop.
|ok i got it|
(or i'm just too stupid droping tanks)
here u have:
north wide ramp+ormal sized ramp is tankable.
southern is not.
northern is also tankable in the river near the bridge and southern can't
minoly are too tankable
and i droped sieged some tanks near the tree you are having problems.
watch the rep
|Haha, now i got two totally different ideas. Inept, flo and Joel are thinking that the holes are better, and Testbug and Nasty think they are bad. What should i do. Protoss got enogh space for flanking, i think. Or should i just make the holes smaller? I'm not a fan of neutral buildings testbug. They only hurt movement and so on.Ofc i will fix the dropspots. If i make the mains only dirt i think it looks so drap. The water isn't the problem, the movement isn't that natural, cuz there are two chokes, but i think an avarage joe could handle this lil problem. I will remove all those fucking trees, cuz i don't get the point of your suggestion. Think it's better to remove them.|
Thank for your effort Testbug, i'm gonna watch the replay asap. thx
|see, there would be enuff flanking room with those holes there, BUT there are a lot of obstacle doodads, cluttering the area. so after really looking at it in the editor, i think it would be just better for you to remove the holes and keep most of those doodads. But still even then, i think you should remove some of the those doodads. All the expansions really favor Terrans, and the last thing a protoss needs is that. So give them a open battlefield :P |
modified by NastyMarine
|no, those holes are necessary to give a tactic value to the middle. if you feel it is too tight, better remove some doodads, as grass and highdirt look awesome on badlands anyway.|
|First, i put there many unwalkable doodads, cuz the battlefield was that open. Then flo and Joel said that the middle is to big and i put some obstacle doodads there. Nobody said somthing against this and then Inept brought this back. So i added some holes. Now i will remove some of the holes and will redo all of the obstacle doodads. |
PS: Flo was posting at the same time :)
modified by ptar
|holes > doodads imo|
|well wouldnt you both agree that the expos are Terran favoring???|
|Wich expos do you mean? The middle ones?|
|not too much. furthermore, there arent any cliff or similar, and protoss has an easy time harassing the natural, so the 1st terran expand is delayed while protoss can take the own without shuttle.|
|Holy Hell! Long list o' comments|
|yeah i posted the replay 2 minutes agos xD|
i told to remove the holes because the doodads looks fine to me :( removing some doodads and making holes smaller will be ok.
but fix that tank spots that are not similar in north wide ramp + normal sized ramp with souterhn ones.
and if you remove the geyser in the natural it will become some more defendable?
|Removed all the dropspots, wich were mentioned by testbug. Also i opened the middle a lil bit. I will decorate the middle a bit more, after i got more feedback. Ofc i don't place unwalkable doodads. :)|
PS: Sry uploaded the wrong picture first
modified by ptar
|no you did!|
there is a bone near red ramp.
you also have 3 skeletons in betwheen the 2 righ holes. (by the 3 o'clock highground gass)
green grass doodads + yellow grass terrain sux
you forgot some important tank spots in the northern wide ramps. those were the most important tank drops