|i got this one from an idea this morning. it's supposed to enter nightmarjoo's contest.|
i tried to hit his criteria:
-2player 96x128 ice map
-natural look: loads of doodads, no man-made however. no symmetry, the map is rotated. trees to make a nice ice world. the map looks very natural at most places which is good; there is a tiny weather station in the center, a remaining of some human colony =)
also i avoided bridges and ramps as far as possible. i may even alter the standard ramps to custom ramps made of dirt+snow.
-intelligent use of doodads: i used doodads to their properties, so i added unbuildable but walkable to the rocky snow. i used tree doodads instead of terrain work.
-basic layout, with some originality: i used the potatolaser-main/nat setup to tweak the gas income
-no critters yet
-i needed crystals as ice glaciers/mountains/growlers to gain a closed path. pathing is okay however, as there is a blocking doodad hidden under the icebergs.
-you can drop tanks on the dirt deco in the water, i hadnt noticed that until the end, i will redo this.
-the center expos with the trees may cause imbalance due to the trees being sprites. if this proves to be too heavy, i will change this to a rockwall.
modified by flothefreak
|5mins center gass too near from 8min center gass imo.|
center trees doesn't look natural.
south backgass can be tanked (can't build under de gass to take the max, but can build at right to take the other max.
north can't be tanked and can only build south to get the max.
you will have to make the 5 mins gass again, it doesn't look like an expo when building a command center there :S
this map looks a lot better in the picture
pick up a reaver with your shutle, now build a lot of turrets arround your mineral formations.
take the shuttle to the crystal formation.
drop the reaver!
the reaver will apear in around the mineral formations! when the shutle is out of turrets range!!!!!!!!
|Only thing I don't like is the nat differences, red's nat is clearly farther from the ramp than blue's. Especially in a two player map this definitely hurts the map. Being zerg, I can only hope I will be blue every time. It's like luna, and hoping I'm not NE or NW, although I don't care for SE too much either lol. But NE luna sucks a lot, NW is almost as bad.|
NW nat cliff has less room than SE. This is weird, SE cliff is larger and the nat is more open. So I can only assume that SW main is smaller than NE =/
Gas issue with the backdoors ish, in order to get optimum mining, SW is far less vulnerable.
I don't need to tell you aestetically it's beautiful, you're flo :)
Odd gameplay for sure.
|yeah actually that backdoor-gas will be redone so both can mine optimum|
i will move the SE minbarrier so the cliff gets smaller and the main more buidling space
the main2nat distance is SO short, this little discrepancy does not really make a difference. having no proper inverts, you will need to accept this fact, as it is a really negliable difference (think of what i wrote in maappers' personalities).
besides, the nat is equally tight.
the 5min1gas thing also came afterwards just like in potato laser. should i delete them?
and as it is for the random map contest: nightmarjoo, trees or rocks as blockade in the center? what do you prefer? i tend to use rocks because they're more balanced, but trees look cooler.
|ah, the reaver thing: well, you will use your reavers then certainly. so this is not really something horrible and no real opportunity, as some defence against ground will kick your reavers anyway without you being able to save them. not optimum, but well, it was not my choice to make the contest an ice/des/twi one -.-|
|nono it's because of your stupid sprites.|
you can drop the reaver at kilometers from the shuttle.
then reaver kill turrets with scarabs and then shuttle can get it.
turrets are for prevet shuttles to came and drop reavers.
anyway. zerg can tell all his vies to drop in the sprotes and lurkers and so will apear in your main!
|i know what you're saying. but if you have no units at all to defend in your main and rely on turrets, it's your own fault anway- as you can then just drop reavers at another spot of the base and kill turrets as well. turrets are actually to prevent the shuttle being used to micro the reavers, not to prevent the whole drop (except you make a turretring around your main, newbstyle). none would/should sacrifice his reaver(s) using this droptrick...|
|ok, this long distance drop gives the map a new game play.|
protoss can long-distance-drop high templars and psionic storm.
but zerg masive ovie drop will become much powerfull
|"the main2nat distance is SO short, this little discrepancy does not really make a difference" lol, why does that make a difference? If it's harder for me to defend my ramp because of the sl I spawned at, why would a short distance from main to nat change anything? lol. That just means when shit runs up my ramp because I got the shitty position they can get to my drones sooner -.-|
"except you make a turretring around your main, prostyle" fixed.
The reaver thing is fine.
Ice inverts are fine. Use spines, make sure the very bottom of the ramp is unbuildable but walkonabout (I use dirt + one of the dirt rock doodad), and that they wall the same at top. Spines' look fine and function fine as far as I've seen.
"and as it is for the random map contest: nightmarjoo, trees or rocks as blockade in the center? what do you prefer? i tend to use rocks because they're more balanced, but trees look cooler" As long as they properly do the blockade job positionally equally, I'm fine with either.
"the 5min1gas thing also came afterwards just like in potato laser. should i delete them?" Dunno, will have to see from test games.
Sounds like the map'll be fine in a an edit or so. The only thing which concerns me is the nat thing, but whatever.
|ah i thought you meant it would be a pos imba because a drone would take more time to reach the the expo spot because of a longer main-to-nat path.|
as you're going for the ramps: just place a hatchery at the natural. do it. you will see it is perfectly equal, and there is no pos imba. i am always concerned about equal nats, so i make sure it's okay.
turretring around your whole main in early game to prevent rvrdrop at all? like, 15 turrets (=15x75=1075 minerals)?! that is no prostyle, that's a waste of minerals. you would have a total of _15_ vultures less in combat -.-
talking of prolevel, that'll be your death.
-treechains are now rockchains, i figured it would be way too deadly to have some hidden lurks or HTs behind your expo. rock ring is lingsafe
-the-reaver-drop-issue is corrected in large parts, as i put some more solid doodads below the invincible growlers. i played around, you can still drop from some spaces near the cliff, but you ahve to get really close and it only works at certain spots
-backdoorgas is now optimized for both pos. and doodads only let the reasonable cc/nex/hatch spot free.
-backdoors are untankable. the little water islands where i could set tanks in scmdraft easily turned out to be closed ingame. i tried heavily and with different approaches to land a tank - no way.
-backdoorramps are now more natural customs (the bottom one just made by me), for the choke i will stick to the standard ones for optimal main defence with the correct height values.
-cliffs (not completely) and mainbases equal sized
-small center expos will stay, they are necessary for a good gameplay, as i can judge from my 3 testgames vs panschk. they also dont feel strange. standard expos.
-critters are now living on this snowy landscape
-several bugfixes which i cant remember now (like, equal space for cannons between center expo and rock-ring
|How are main2main distances?|
I'm really liking this map. Good edit. I need to test this, I want to see how the gas timing works.
|for rushing, main2main distance is quite long actually, which i personally dont like usually. that is why most of my other maps have quite short main distances.|
but i dont feel this hurts the map, it's more like it compensates the peculiarity of the layout (only 1path straight between mains).
in mid- to lategame, the distance seems completely appropriate and works fine imo (as soon as you leave your natural, the distance is decreases distinctly).
maybe panschk can tell more about distances and mapflow, for he played this map as T and Z; as protoss i think it works out well and is comfortable and fun to play.
|one of your best maps ever flo.|
|Played an ok game with flo here. I didn't notice any issues with the map, and it gives decent natural vibes in game, ie it follows the competition theme well.|
|AND HE DID NOT USE THE MIRROR TOOL!!!!!|
|OH YES HE DID! But he hid it below some non-mirrored stuff, which covers about 100% of the map!!!|
|no he did not, he had the old scmdraft without the XY checkbox! it was totally handmade!|
congratulations flothefreak, this is your best map by far, after winning the random competition you should turn it into a normal map, and take it to iccup or something.
i love it.
|what should i make to turn it into a normal map? :<|
|move the gas to the nat and make the "island" behind the main a real island (with gas) but with a mineral block to avoid floating cc|
|you have a gassonly backdoor :S|
and 10 fields nat. that's not normal.
(what about a blade storm main setup?)
now you are telling flo what to do??!!!
you should start being nice (something like "it would be nice if you do this and this" or "i would move this things" etc)
don't tell him what to do
recomendations > orders
|fuck you :) |
modified by Crackling
|flo, i'm jealous of your mapping skills :(|
|Nice but for each "half-map" you have all the gas nats concentrated on one side and all the minonlys concentrated on the other side. If you move one of the geysers to the second minonly expo that would "decentralize" this gas concentration and give the players more options as to areas of the map they have to control for a third gas expo (being those two gas expos in the center so close to each other).|
|oh tha gass placement. there is gass issue at MAINS???|