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Last update for (2)The Third Degree : 2007, 09, 13 09:43
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2438 (2)The Third Degree 96*96Excalibur0.5beta

The map has been rated 52 times and got a total of 25 points
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Melee


You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Excalibur
My first ash map, wanted to do something a little different.

Balance comments please. BWMN has been proving, for lack of a better word, useless in that area.

Notes:
Main mineral ramps = 16
In-Main island block = 8
In-Main island mineral values 8x1000, 2x500
Side ramp mineral value = 8
modified by Excalibur
Moebius
Small maps like these are Zerg rush lovers' wet dreams.

Then if Terran survives to late game...it's impossible for Protoss to maneuver against large metal pushes.
Excalibur
Please suggest how to fix ):
ProTosS4EveR
I don't think that this map is 64*64. -.-
Excalibur
Whoops. 96x96

Balance comments please. v.v
Nightmarjoo
Why is there as much money on this map as there is in luna?
Excalibur
Updated:
Took away a mineral field or two from each expo.
High ground gas expo ramp block changed to 24.

More please.
Nightmarjoo
t map obviously, lol. You don't need bwm to tell you that. Narrow with cliffs? Wonderful. Lot of easy gas too.

If your map is going to have the gas issue, don't upload it please.

For how small the map is, there is way too much gas and minerals. Removed mineral fields from expos? Try removing expos.

The mains are really awkward.

What's with all the mineral walls?

Very linear map, the sides have 4000 hp in the way of being used ever. Games will probably end before you have time to knock that down lol.

I don't really see anything I like in this map, sorry =/ No suggestions to fixing anything outside of I suggest you make a new map :)
Excalibur
Thank you Nightmarjoo now if i didnt have to wait days for comments like that, i wouldnt be begging for people to say something.

I didnt want to mention it, but i usually direct people interested in melee mapping here, BWMN is a great site to get feedback on melee maps--Or so i thought. The past few persons i sent here were disgusted by the wait and off-topic focus of the comments on their maps.

Look,
Mapping sites get reputations, and a reputation determines quite a few things, and quite greatly affects new users registering.
As said above, i like BWMN and so i direct people here. Others might not because after over a week of having a map up they have a grand total of one useful comment and ten useless ones.

When it comes to posting my maps here, im all buisness.

Didnt mean to offend anyone with that, but thats the truth of it.
Nightmarjoo
Whoops sorry that I've been doing my summer homework instead of posting on bwm! I should just change my schedule so I can tell noob mappers what I say on every map, when they could just lurk a bit more and read stuff and realize their maps have those issues and can fix them before uploading! Gee, it's my fault I guess noobs don't learn how to make maps because I didn't comment fast enough!

During the school year, last year, I commented every map as soon as I saw it, and practically wrote essays on everyone's maps. I had the time to do that, so I didn't mind. Of course, it was still unnerving that although the mapper said "oh thanks Nightmarjoo for the great comment!" they still didn't address or test any of the issues, they maybe made a stupid edit which didn't fix anything, or maybe decided to tell me I was wrong and go make another shitty map without learning anything.

Those past few persons could probably learn a lot by lurking at the site and reading shit. I learned so much when I first read the site's articles. Also, if they'll leave because someone didn't comment their map fast enough then I don't want them at the site because they don't have the patience to be good mappers.

Please, look at the database. Most maps get 3 comments and that's it.

"Thank you Nightmarjoo now if i didnt have to wait days for comments like that, i wouldnt be begging for people to say something" oho! You thank me and then go about saying I took too long? lol. Maybe if you spent more time on your map and thought about what makes a map good from comments made on other maps you'd get a better map, and people would actually comment it. I don't really mind telling people their maps are garbage, but I know others try and be nice. I try and be nice too when I say the negatives on a map, but it's not really necessary (or sometimes possible even).

You want a better site? Go make one. You think they don't post stupid retarded comments on mapdori? lol, half the comments I see on mapdori include long streams of ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ (it's like 'lol' or 'haha').

New users coming results in getting more noobs who think their maps are gosu and don't listen to the more experienced mappers. I don't care to have them, their maps suck and they don't improve. In every single map one makes, one should learn something.

DIDN'T MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE BUT THAT'S THE TRUTH OF IT LOL
flothefreak
you are all little reatrd fuckers. i dont mean to offend anyone but that is sadly the truth of it.

:D
Lancet
You have boxes for "feedback", "off topic" and so forth. Create a new box entittled "Instructions for New Mapmakers" or something like that where all of Nightmarjoo's comments and those of others regarding the most basic requirement of a map are readily readable by new mapmakers.

Difficulty in getting a second gas expo may hurt zerg. Second gas expo (by land) is very far away from main. The map looks a bit squareish, try giving those ridges and other terrain some curves.
modified by Lancet
the dentist
This post is not displayed due to its content
Nightmarjoo
lulz ez
Nightmarjoo
flame + useless comments = censored, flame + usefull comments stays... unless it's really bad flame, then just edit post ;)
the dentist
censor the truth about you, while you flame other ppl. k
the dentist
very suspicious, self-serving censorship, sir.
flothefreak
ok. feel free to leave if you cant live with it...
Nightmarjoo
Dentist, my reasoning for the censor was posted below, flame + useless comments = censored. You can protest the censor if you think there was anything redeemable about the post, like, maybe it had some valid information in it? But since it doesn't, and since it is a flame, it gets censored.

Also, if you didn't have a reputation for being a moron flamer, I wouldn't perhaps be so inclined to censor your posts, but you do, so I am.

Protip: I love being disagreed with, I hate being disagreed with if there is no proof, evidence, support, argument, etc. I love being told I'm wrong if you can prove it. Bare in mind that most of what I say is based on playing experience. I am one of the better players if not mappers of the site, so I think I know about half of what I'm talking about. It's very possible that my comments on maps longer ago are retarded and just wrong because I knew less about sc than I do now, but I'm pretty confident about what I talk about now, and when I'm unsure, I make that evident.



About the map and regarding your comments:
My issues with the map were it being narrow, linear, having too much money. You said flanking would come in late game? Er, yeah, being able to use even more narrow paths definitely help flanking... oh wait, no they don't! pvt looks hard, but pvt is where my sc knowledge and experience is lacking, but still, map is not very open, remember, it's 96x96, not 128x128.
zvt might be ok, since you can start with min only, then take your backdoor expo, but that forces a 3hatch style, because 2hatch with 1gas is no fun zvt. You can't really safely 3hatch into the expo with the two ramps in front of your nat because sunks won't cover it, a lot of unbuildable stuff. This makes z weak zvt vs some strats since he's forced to 3hatch combined with short distances. Overall, zvt is probably ok until late late game when z needs a lot of room to flank, once it gets there z loses I think. Terran can safely FE to his backdoor, block the 3hatch muta timing, move out taking his 3rd base/gas, once he secures that he'll be strong. But after t blocks the muta (assuming he does) is a time period where he is vulnerable to z unless he turtles (highly likely given how many bases there are, etc).

zvp looks p>z. Zerg has to take his min only first, p can FE to his backdoor and later take his min only and the expo after it really easily. Now, z possibly can do the same thing depending on how agressive p is, but equal bases zvp is z losing, especially with little flank room in the tight middle.
NyRe
== t map obviously, lol. You don't need bwm to tell you that. Narrow with cliffs? Wonderful. Lot of easy gas too. ==

Shin Peaks of Baekdu

PvT: 28-19 (59.6%)
TvZ: 25-29 (46.3%)
Every expo has gas.

Narrow with cliffs, terran map lol?

Hitchhiker

TvZ: 14-16 (46.7%)
PvT: 7-10 (41.2%)
Easy 2nd gas, every expo but two have gas.

More narrow, more cliffs, terran map lol?

Narrow and cliffs doesn't mean anything when taken in vaccum, only significant how it relates with expo placement, timings etc, face it finally for Christ's sake. Play the map. Then give out comments.

Map's quite nice, although I'd improve the decor. There's a map somewhere here that is simply a tutorial on how to decorate ashworld maps.

EDIT: After looking at it for a while, I can thorize it's geared towards P in PvT - toss can easily take 2 expands right away, whereas terran is pretty much restricted to taking his backdoor first - nat is just unfavorable cause it's very wide-open and has no gas. The map is very linear and toss can easily defend his expos in midgame making vulture harass almost inexistent and killing the sole purpose of a min-only nat for terran. Later on, toss takes the expo at cliff and goes carriers, immediately denying terran the island and taking his own. Timing push is not that hard to stop here - distances are quite large and toss has the position control - all his expos should be behind his army. Those edge-map passageways can give terran an opportunity, but they are easily monitored either by observers, or by pylons built in between (pylon-hop serves two puproses - you can get a pylon behind those buildings and get a probe into the terran's backdoor to see his expo timing). Once scouted, it's not that hard for toss to react. By the time terran can push out with a "large metal army" toss should have his air tech up already and pretty much every expo on this map is vulnerable to carrier gayness. I think toss has an edge, but I may be wrong sinve I didn't play it.
modified by NyRe
modified by NyRe
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