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Last update for (4)Rise of Teotihuacan : 2008, 02, 24 04:00
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2526 (4)Rise of Teotihuacan 128*128ProTosS4EveR1.8final

The map has been rated 72 times and got a total of 131 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


ProTosS4EveR
Here is my newest map!
Ok, i made it in 2 hours this time. xD

I saw this nat setup at mapdori and i wanted to make it a 4P map.
Crackling
dunno about balancing here but should be fine...
not enough build space in the mains, though
ProTosS4EveR
You can use the space in the nat. :P
Alter.Ego
isn't the main to main distance a bit too short?
Crackling
noone gonna build his warps / faxx there -.-
maybe tighten the nat a bit and make mains bigger?
those cliff behind nat is also sucky -_-
noone will ever drop there i think
flothefreak
looks very cool- of course also because you know how to make a map beautiful (look is GREAT), but also from the look on gameplay. i cant say if it is balanced but it really looks fun to play!
esp. because it reminds me of blade storm a tiny bit =)

i like it very much, and the backdoor expo with blocks are cool
Excalibur
W O W
Gosu deco
Not sure about the concept.
PsychoTemplar
I think you need a neutral creep colony so Zerg don't have to 3 hatch (considering you're giving Terran the ability to cliff them so easily).
ptar
Posted it at mapdori:

http://www.mapdori.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=usermap2&no=6859

PS: You have to be logged in.
NastyMarine
Godly execution! THe only problem i see with this map is that there are no expo that can be secured easily. I could be wrong. Maybe the nats in the back arent so bad. If thats the case its very nice. GW
modified by NastyMarine
Nightmarjoo
Map will for the most part play similarly to Nemesis, only without any emphasis on drops. If you think that map is good, then this is great. But if you're sane, you probably won't.
Actually, it's not bad. Kinda like Nemesis meets Nostalgia and Dalhia of Jungle.
ProTosS4EveR
@PsychoTemplar
Creep Colony at main entrance right?
PsychoTemplar
Yes. Especially considering how queer it could be when Terran takes his m'm around the back after destroying neutrals to be a pain in the butt.
uC.MorroW
"Crackling: maybe tighten the nat a bit and make mains bigger?"

/totally agree
Nightmarjoo
No need for a creep colony, zerg can 3hatch, or 2hatch with timed lings. You just give z a dumb way to cheese with that =/

The xel nagas will not fall very fast, especially to mnm lol. Zerg has plenty of time to get units and/or static d to defend main and nat.

"Crackling: maybe tighten the nat a bit and make mains bigger?"
/totally disagree
No need for that, and keeping the nats open will keep that a viable area to be mobile through after the xel nagas break down. Main space imo is fine.
Crackling
"Crackling: maybe tighten the nat a bit and make mains bigger?"


/totally disagree

hear to nightmarjoo, damn n00b
BestTarsier
I hate the look of the high ground bases without grass. It is really disgusting looking to play on in my opinion. If I ever played this map I would be praying every time not to get that base. It just looks ugly and has no detail. >_<

Moebius
Same here.

Curse LT for coming up with that idea.
DeSade
Yeah this is how seongangil should have been made, keep it up brow!
Nightmarjoo
""Crackling: maybe tighten the nat a bit and make mains bigger?"


/totally disagree

hear to nightmarjoo, damn n00b"

lol what? Am I being called a noob or being agreed with, I'm unsure, though the latter seems unlikely ;)


"I hate the look of the high ground bases without grass. It is really disgusting looking to play on in my opinion. If I ever played this map I would be praying every time not to get that base. It just looks ugly and has no detail"
That's noobs copying korean decoration patterns, for-the-jpg style, instead of considering the ingame look. I always decorate for in game, or try to atleast.
ProTosS4EveR
Oh, i never thought that the ingame deco is different from overall deco on jpeg... :[
ProTosS4EveR
-- UPDATE --

- I moved the top left and bottom right ramps.
- I swichted some high dirt to dirt near the "normal" ramps to make the wall-in with 1 rax and 1 supply because inverted ramps force it.
- I made some grass in bottom left for BestTarsier. :P
Nightmarjoo
Oh, I like.
Nightmarjoo
Templar, you played the map? What'd you think?
Lancet
Map is very pretty and the concept innovative although I have no idea what the best strategy would be, plus horizontal, vertical and diagonal play in a 1v1 may be quite different. IMO there are some details that players have to be aware of when playing this map.

I imagine a situation where all of sudden you have to move troops from the front of your main (facing the center) to the back (facing the corner) or vice versa.

First, if the troops are at the wrong angle they will head for the entrances blocked by the neutrals instead of crossing the base. So that is an issue that players may have to deal with.

The second issue is that the positioning of the buildings in the mains must be such that they will not block or delay units going from one ramp to another. That requires having a clear notion of where the ramp to ramp "line" lies in your main when placing the buildings. To help players with that perhaps you can alter the decoration of the mains to clearly show with the terrain or with doodads where this "line" is.

Finally, in the NW and SE mains the units may walk into the worker line as the ramp to ramp path skirts the starting location.
Beater
The temples don't work. Please fix it
ProTosS4EveR
They work, look at my replays... it's the same version.

Or the map version you played was the old one. It is , in the replay the normal ramps have to be wall'ined by 1rax and 2 supplies. :P
modified by ProTosS4EveR
ProTosS4EveR
Arg, replays file name are too long... short them to see the replay, sorry. >_<
Beater
Weird, I could have sworn that I downloaded the latest version. Oh well, no problems then.
evil_DNA
I'm Teh Gorgy Orgy.
Oh and I suck on the reps, I had a 4 months SC break :D
ProTosS4EveR
And i am Real.fAke- and i didn't have a 4 months SC break. :'(
modified by ProTosS4EveR
Testbug
test games don't show anything
Nightmarjoo
I don't get it, it's just as templar always says. I say, hit me up for a test game or two, and no one ever actually asks for one, lol.

My aim is The64man, my msn is Nightmarjoo@hotmail.com, my current battle.net name is iM-Nightmarjoo on useast. If you want a game, contact me through one of those three ways, lol. I'm pretty much always on msn or aim. If I don't respond, I'm probably on battle.net.

I get home from school around 4 pm EST 22:00 CET, I think.

I can play any mu, but my tvt, pvt, and pvz are pretty bad. My other mus are much more stable.
tktkvroom
joel sucks he is noob not worth it ;)

tested map few times, dont like gameplay....at all --;
NastyMarine
explain why fat boy!
tktkvroom
reps
Testbug
i think you do nothing on this mapp? just get out of your base and go through a linear way to oponent's base. doesn't look like nemesis, i would upload my reps but my games are not enought good :D mains are very large, and very dropable in the "tail". doesn't sense like nemesis, you fight for 9 and 3 on nemesis, and the islands change the gameplay. i don't think xel nagas really do anything.
ProTosS4EveR
I added a replay, ok my zerg can be better. I noticed a big issue with the xelnaga temples, small units can pass trought vertical ones and i think i switch these temples to other buildings because they are a little too long to destroy (evil_DNA thought the same thing)
NastyMarine
the mains are def not big. at all. now (4)thewake's mains are huge.
NastyMarine
NOOB PROBLEM ALERT:

Red's startlocation is one grid too far from mineral line! How the fuck do you forget to correct that????????????????????
ProTosS4EveR
HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!1! PLEASE FORGIVE ME NASTY!!

(it's good now o_o)
ProTosS4EveR
UPDATE!!1!!11!!!

Small units can't pass throught vertical xelnaga formation anymore.
I also did some deco to make it nicer ingame. :p
ProTosS4EveR
Uploaded a quickgame with some micro :P
ProTosS4EveR
Swichted xel naga temples to psi disruptors.
Moved red's and blue's mineral formation.
NastyMarine
i love this map :)

it has great style, good frame, and awesome deco.
modified by NastyMarine
Nightmarjoo
Bring Xel Nagas back please. Just like in Battlegrounds, those 2000 hp things die too fast =/ I think maybe the xel nagas have armour?

Mains are awkward for depots imo. Didn't feel good to me. Feels too forced into the nat, which (especially with the 2000 hp shits) isn't all that secure.

No offensive ovy spot for zvt :(

Seems like just a picture map =/
ProTosS4EveR
Ok, i will bring back xelnagas. Offensive ovy stop = some moutains? tell me if i'm wrong.
Testbug
some unreachable place for marines, or some high ground where you can place the overlord nex to a low ground turret, an the turret won't see it because of the low ground vision :)
Testbug
hello? anyone reading here?
where is the ovie spot?
ok i think you can reduce the main-to-main distances by placing purple ramp near 6 o'clock and teal near 12.

looks like you wanted payers to fight for these expos, but BLUE AND RED ARE NEAR TO 3 and 9, it looks like this is their 3rd expo.

blue gass can be arcadia-hitted. (purple not because the ramps is near the gass) red minerals can be arcadia-hited.

you sayd you were placing back the xel naga temnples? please do it.

oh, did i sayd i really dislike this map? ^^
ProTosS4EveR
Yep, you already told you don't like teh map. :P

UPDATED!!!

First of all, Xel Nagas are back!
I tried to make red's and blue's ramp farer from the 3 and 9 o'clock expos, i think i have to improve it again...
Blue's gas can't be tanked anymore.

For the ovi spot, i think the temple i put are not enough, i may make more temples there. xP
ProTosS4EveR
Ovi spots like that?
FateD
love the update, really the best map ive played in awhile :D gj man
lnept
eh looks pretty boring to be honest, mains are mad close and theres no reason to ever engage the center of the map because it isnt important. only the edges. so its like playing ring around the rosie
Nightmarjoo
I guess it's better. Needs tested.
Testbug
i think you can reduce the main-to-main distances by placing purple ramp near 6 o'clock and teal near 12.

BLUE AND RED ARE NEAR TO 3 and 9, it looks like this is their 3rd expo.
LML
ehm, was it desisgned for being able to sneak in a probe/zealot/zergling/whatever at 12 and 6 above the temples?! Lol!
ez to make some atk from behind without killing the temples/ez to make some cheese without leaving his main with your main scout probe;)

just lol!
ProTosS4EveR
FCK, I WAS SURE THAT I FIXED IT! T_TTTTTTTT
ProTosS4EveR
Ok, i refixed it, but will the fixed version of map be played on avaton or the buggie?
Testbug
what's an avaton?
you should move the ramps (this will increase the main-to-ma8in distance amnd red/blue are near to 9/3 expos
LML
I've found out the bug just a few minutes b4 I played avaton;)
Testbug
lol, the latest replay was on gaia
ProTosS4EveR
Finally updated teh map! :)

Main exit is in the same distance from neutral expos (top and bottom for sure) for all players.

Moved mineral formations in the main. (was it the reason you disliked the mains mjaroo?)

@lancet
" The second issue is that the positioning of the buildings in the mains must be such that they will not block or delay units going from one ramp to another. That requires having a clear notion of where the ramp to ramp "line" lies in your main when placing the buildings. " did it :p
modified by ProTosS4EveR
MorroW
terran > protoss map, yes im seious ╠
Nightmarjoo
I definitely dislike the mains still; I see no change in them. Awkward shape, and because of the shape and the ramp(s) positioning makes it necessary to be one hell of an architect to make your base work. Problem with using both the main and the nat for building space is in the need to allow mobility and whatnot, on top of the normal needs for pathing, space for unit producers, and for depots, etc.
main2nat distance seems long
Those "ovy spots" are stupid imo. I think they make dropping tanks there or lurks, or w/e annoying ._.
ProTosS4EveR
How does a ovi spot look? can you make a oic of it?
Crackling
I SEE THAR!


HUNGRY LION IS HUNGRY.

EDITED PIC IS EDITED.
ProTosS4EveR
you get it carky xP
Testbug
like this?
ProTosS4EveR
is it carkling on the drawing? :O
Crackling
no not me :(

i have longer hair xd
and no glases :D
ludamad
Carkling: No comment on the overlord wanker though?
Rye
That pic is disturbing. :(

I like those "backdoor ramps" on the mains.
ProTosS4EveR
UPDATE!!1!

- The temple formations are changed, you can hide a lord there i tested it and i didn't want to make it big to enlarge the middle coz it was really tight. I may make it bigger if you think it is too small.

- Added rocky ground near main cliff to make more unbuildable terrain.

- Any main mineral formations can be shooted by tanks.

- Mains are also a little bigger.

- Removed all useless shit(temples, water...) near map edge
modified by ProTosS4EveR
Nightmarjoo
Well, I placed my buildings poorly which didn't help, but even if I had placed my buildings correctly, it's really fucking hard to defend both main and nat from muta, short main2main distance, but fairly long main2nat distance. For zvt, I'd say if a competent z 9pools it's over from short main2main distances. If z doesn't 9pool, it's probably just over, since t can use those short distances for a simple 2rax. Not that he needs the 2nd rax probably, though. Middle game, if the game is still on (probably z 9pooled, but t lived, which is what happened in my game), t will have a hardtime fighting muta if z is competent. However, a competent t should be able to handle it fine and move to contain/siege zerg. Any small mistake with muta and z loses the game because of the short distances. If z can delay t long enough with muta to buy time to get lurks to cover the ramp, and the 2 xel naga exits, z might be able to delay t long enough to get an expo. z will need to delay t long enough to get hive tech or he will outright lose. If t made a single tank though, I can't see z having enough time to secure a 3rd gas, = loss. Not to mention z really has no viable ovy spot rofl -_-

tl;dr 9pool rapes, but otherwise t>z imo.

pvz, 2gate maybe proxy all day plz. The expo layout will probably favour z over p, but I'm not positive on that. Protoss will have very little difficulty getting those neutrals down, which could help p there. If p can manage to construct a useable main, zvp should be the most balanced mu on this map I think. However, I can see a lot of 9pool vs double gate at 9 games. I think protoss has to cut probes to get faster gates to survive a 9pool with such close distances. A lot of these games will come down to micro, so I can't really say who is favoured, depending on the timing. I did not test 9pool vs 2gate timing at all. I think protoss can safely 2gate every game pvz, since they can expo as long as they have 3 zlots, which isn't that hard to get lol. If z tries to break a neutral, p can just counter for the win. I guess that'd make it a p map, since p can easily cannon a 3rd base; and z won't be able to outflank p as easily using neutral paths if it comes down to that.

p>t, no question. Short distances make zlot and/or goon initially really strong. T can't wall without depot depot rax, correct? gl... I think the map's flank capabilities will be best used in pvt, by p. If p manages to not win in 8 minutes, and they both expo, p can probably take his 3rd on time, while t really cannot safely take a 3rd unless p is majorly behind, or t gets lucky while pushing. Even then, p can still use the neutral paths to outflank t easily...
tl;dr p>t

tl;dr I think map is t>z, p>z, p>t.
Starparty
how can a map be both p>z and p>t ? ;P History first?
Crackling
me nightmarjo

p > z
p > t
t > p
t > z
z > t
z > p

completly imbalanced.
Grief_Stricken
:o!!!

probably skill difference let them conclude > imba map.
Testbug
Nightmarjoo sayd:
"short main2main distance, but fairly long main2nat distance"
-what??
ProTosS4EveR
nat far from backdoor ramp?
Nightmarjoo
Starparty did you read what I wrote? Or just the tl;drs lol.

Grief when I wrote that, I didn't base it 100% off of the game I played, I used theory crafting along with my experience on the map to come up with that =/ I said, I think it's this way, it's definitely possible that I could be wrong.

As for the pvz vs pvt, I'm pretty sure p>t, but not positive about zvp.
MorroW
ling rush would be good :)
Lancet
Terran can wall in with 2 depots and a barrack before the first zealot gets there. The distances do not spell doom for terran. An early toss attack can be survived and then terran gets vultures and tanks. The map requires editing of the ramps so the barracks can be made closer and nothing will get through. Alternatively the ramps can be edited for the wall in to be performed with one depot and a barrack. Perhaps ProTosS4EveR can make these edits.
Nightmarjoo
That timing smells fishy.
Crackling
...and then terran gets vultures and tanks...

GOD HAS SPOKEN
Lancet
Yes Crackling I am GOD, but I only favor virgins, are you a virgin?

: ^ )
Replays


--prOxi.Beater vs Art.Less(1on1, 1.15)
--Teh_Gorgy_Orgy vs Real.fAke-(1on1, 1.15)
--Teh_Gorgy_Orgy vs Real.fAke-(1on1, 1.15)
--Chopper]i[ vs FuTuRe)EmPiRe(1on1, 1.15)
--AS.DhY vs Real.fAke-(1on1, 1.15)
--dArK[rhOx] vs Real.fAke-(1on1, 1.15)
--AS.DhY vs Real.fAke-(1on1, 1.15)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs Proxi.Beater(1on1, 1.15)
-- vs aby(1on1, 1.15)
--NightSkY[x.PG] vs Daz[3x](1on1, 1.15)
--aYa.Amethyst vs nb.crackling(1on1, 1.15)

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