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Last update for (4)The Lair of Ulrezaj : 2007, 10, 19 02:34
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2562 (4)The Lair of Ulrezaj 128*128Lancet1.0experimental

The map has been rated 57 times and got a total of 58 points
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Comments:   GMCS (4 elements)


Lancet
OK, I am entering this in Psychotemplar's contest Fast & Slow.

The main idea is for the nats to be initially minonlys until the minerals are removed to gain access to the geyser. To reduce the likelihood of a drop in that zone or air units "parking" themselves behind those minerals I placed them in the corners. Making workers cross the mineral line may be somewhat laborious as the mineral block is 32 so you would need 4 workers to remove it. However, I think I overdid it as it may take too long to gain access to the geyser. I can reduce one section of the mineral wall to a single clump and reduce its value or any other things you may suggest.

Anyway, the clumps of the nat's mineral wall are 580 each and a total of 18, so that is equivalent to 7 of 1500. The clumps in the side central expos are 600 and a total of 15, equivalent to 6 clumps of 1500 each. The rest of the expos are "normal".

Oh, that central structure is doodads overlaid with sprites, you can hide units there.

modified by Lancet
Testbug
omg Lancet! this is a nice1, but you can drop a siege tank at the island to surely block red and purple's gass. not sure if it an hit the command center.
can't 9 and 3 be on highground? the path to this expo is kinda annoying.
i really like this1, plz decore the empty water :D
Lancet
Well that is why I placed that space behind the minerals in the corner next to the base so air units will have to cross the base space or nat space to get to it. Hopefully by the time they try this a few cannons/turrets/spore colonies will be up or some units that can shoot them down will be about. I am trying to think of a way to make the geyser more accesible without defeating the concept of the map.

I will see what I can do about the side expos and I will decore the water. Thanks for your comments.
Lancet
OK, made the side expos high ground. The total minerals here are equivalent to 6 mineral clumps of 1500 each. I lowered the value of the two central mineral clumps of the minonly nats to 154 each and raised the value of the rest (to 637) in such a way that the total is equivalent to 7 clumps of 1500 each. This way minig workers will break through to the gas faster. If you think it is still too slow let me know and I will decrease it further. I also added decor to the water.
Testbug
hey you did not understand what i sayd:
when you drop units at the island, you can hit purple and red gass, but you can't hit teal and blue gass (with siege tanks)
Lancet
Sorry, I was confused by your usage of the word "island"; you meant the low ground near the water next to the mains. I placed some doodads there so now tanks cannot be dropped, thanks.
Testbug
no, i mean the corner islands, i'll GMCS.
purple and red gass can be hit by droped tanks

blue and teal do not
NastyMarine
i like the idea, and it has a good design :)
Nightmarjoo
Not bad. I wonder though, if the map could benefit from atleast small vertical paths from the hill at the top and bottom middle parts?
Kind of a pain for terran to place his depots though.
E/W are a bit tight :)

As zerg, I would azalea this in a second, then mine out a block and take my gas, and then put my 4th hatch at the nat.

Interesting map, I like it.
Lancet
Yes Testbug, I had understood you correctly and like I said before that is why I placed that space in the corner, so that a dropship will have to travel over the main or nat for the drop to happen. But you have a point, just in case this happens it will affect these two mains different from the others. I will try to move the geyser to the top and see if that helps (I don't want to create a gas issue).

Thanks Nasty, the only thing I need to figure out is whether the value of the central mineral clumps in the minonly's mineral line is low enough as to allow access to the geyser behind them in a reasonable amount of time.
Nightmarjoo
WTF YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR COMMENTS AND NOT MINE?
NastyMarine
because we're in love :)
Lancet
Damn! Sorry Nightmarjoo, totally missed your post. I will think about it & comment tomorrow.

Nasty, I'm straight.

: ^ )
flothefreak
have you already played this map? pls, take your natural as p/t with 10+ workers and tell if everything is fine...
Lancet
Nightmarjoo, I will work on the connection and see how it looks but the way it is now tanks can reach the central N/S expos from the rim of the central plateau but can only be attacked from the sides. I am going to figure out how a ramp giving direct access from the center will change things.

Testbug, I tried rearanging the minerals to give way to the geysers on top but ended up with ugly mineral formations with holes and had to change the others too. It became such a mess that I gave up. I will try again another day.

Flo I have played the map against the comp. It's basically a minonly nat that also becomes a gas nat when you remove the central and blocking clumps (and you should build another CC/nexus/hatch there). I still think the value of the central clumps is too high and I will consider lowering it.
flothefreak
have you already played this map? pls, take your natural as p/t with 10+ workers and tell if everything is fine...
PsychoTemplar
That mineral in there to stop Terran from lifting CC is kinda pointless, cause you can just peon hop over the minerals anyway.
Lancet
OK, the central mineral clumps in the nat are now 98 each so the geyser can be reached in a reasonable amount of time after you take the nat. It plays OK timewise at least against the comp.

I made the nearest minonly expo a "fast" one (12 clumps of 750 equivalent to 6 of 1500), I moved around some of the nat's mineral clumps so they won't hide others and I added some deco.

I decided against connecting the central plateau by the middle to the low ground. If you want to attack something up there you are going to have to go up the side ramps.

And that's it for this map. I'm off to other things now.
modified by Lancet
flothefreak
are you retarded?
flothefreak
have you already played this map? pls, take your natural as p/t with 10+ workers and tell if everything is fine...
flothefreak
have you already played this map? pls, take your natural as p/t with 10+ workers and tell if everything is fine...
flothefreak
have you already played this map? pls, take your natural as p/t with 10+ workers and tell if everything is fine...
flothefreak
have you already played this map? pls, take your natural as p/t with 10+ workers and tell if everything is fine...
Lancet
Flo, I meant my last post to answer your question, yes I have played the map, I can take the natural as terran, I can mine the minerals and I can gain access to the gas in a reasonable amount of time.

Testbug, I placed the geysers of the NW and SW mains to the right of the starting location and I placed the geysers of the NE and SE mains a little further away to deal with the gas issue. I timed the mining and they work similarly.
Nightmarjoo
This map was a big disapointment to me.

The nats are not fine, the minerals get buggy and workers get stuck and all sorts of wonderful things.
If you mine the gas without placing a 3rd hatch or nexus or cc next to the gas, the workers try taking the gas to your main sl (it's closer or about the same distance by air).

The mains are too small. There isn't enough room around the main minerals.

The area around the min only is imo too tight. It's definitely going to lead to turtling games.

My game vs templar was pretty bad, and the center wasn't used. It showed enough though, =/ I didn't get a chance to use E/W. But I doubt they'll work nicely anyway, they're so tight =/

The mineral formations in general are all awkward.

Obvious gas issue.

I think the concept is probably fine, but it was executed poorly. I dunno if you can make it good without restarting =/ Maybe give the map rotated symmetry instead of symmetry along the x and y axis. Try and open thing up more, the mains need more room, the nats are tight, the min onlys are kind of tight, and I don't know about the middle, but it's probably tight too lol. The horizontal pathing takes those tight paths, which might be awkward, especially with the middle lacking some flankability.
Lancet
Thanks for playing the game. For some reason the new patch is not installing in my computer so I can't see all of it correctly. But from the little I can see correctly:

There is no gas issue, read above in the thread, I corrected that. I didn't see any problems with the workers. Yes, you have to make a new nexus next to the geyser to mine it, that is how I intended it to be played. The mains are not big, it requires a lot of thought to where you place the buildings. The observer in your game is not a serious person, did he think it was some sort of a joke?

I will try to get this stupid patch thing fixed or just kick the stupid computr and be done with everything altogether.
Nightmarjoo
There is a gas issue, look at the mains, lol. Right geyser mines slower than left. There's a new patch? My game was on 1.15.1.

Protoss and terran are not going to make a 3rd cc/nexus, lol.
Lancet
"Protoss and terran are not going to make a 3rd cc/nexus, lol."

That was the idea from the begining and you never said anything before. I can increase the value of the minerals in the nat if you feel now that this is not justified with their present value.

As to the gas issue read the thread, I placed the left geysers further away from the starting position than the right ones.

I have installed and reinstalled the stupid game and still it will not accept patch 1.15.1 regardless of whether I download it from Blizzard or whether I log on to battlenet. I will have to go to Blizzard Tech support. This sucks.
Nightmarjoo
1.15.1 isn't new, have you really not opened sc in that long?

As for your gas issue fix, the problem is that they'll mine at different speeds with 3 miners.
Allstar4
Wow I really like what you did with the middle. It seems like there are 2 given bases that are easy to defend. I just hope it doesn't end up in massive turtlefests.
Lancet
Thanks Allstar4, to get a third gas you will have to leave the main area. Also those mineral clumps are not all 1500. Only the main's and the one of the central gas expo.

Tried testing the geysers even at the normal distance, gathering speed depended on which geyser I started mining first, very weird. I'm tired of dealing with this, I just placed the geysers the way they were. There is no gas issue now, just don't let anyone drop tanks behind the mineral line of the nat before you are ready to deal with it. I also increased the overall mineral value of the nat's clumps to the equivalent of 8 of 1500 each. Just make sure you make an extra nexus, CC, hatch to mine the gas.

I had patch 14, it was upgraded to 15 when I logged on to Battlenet, all my older replays then went to hell. I had to reinstall to get patch 14 back but then I had problems watching patch 15 replays. The people at Blizzard are IDIOTS. Finally gave in and tried to go back to 15 and now I can't.
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--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs Art.less(1on1, 1.15)

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