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Last update for (4)Grnaki Prime : 2007, 10, 21 02:50
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2588 (4)Grnaki Prime 128*128Lancet0.6experimental

The map has been rated 36 times and got a total of 20 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Lancet
The mains are "C" shaped and complex. The gas-nat is within the main separated from the outside by 2 neutrals. More or less the same concept as Lost Tampon's "Avatar". I have already checked and there are no vertical pathing problems. The mains incorporate nightmarjoo's idea of a swarm-dweb combination towards the edge. Also in that direction is a minonly with creep and a geyser behind the mineral line. The only other non-main expo is North and South of the central snowy plateau behind a cluster of pine trees under which units can hide.

The map description is part of Captain Jonathan Rogers's last transmission from Grnaki Prime as per Blizzard's map "Hailstorm".

modified by Lancet
Starparty
since i was away for a while, what was the purpose of those spells in the mains? ...
tktkvroom
Avatar???????
spinesheath
I second starparty
Lancet
Starparty and Spinesheath, to quote my good friend Nightmarjoo (you can read more about dewbs and swarms in the "Spells on Maps-2" article of the article section):

"Essentially, it can work the same way dwebs do for scouts. With a swarm inbase, a scout can hide from terran marines or protoss dragoons! Especially combined with a nearby dweb, this also offers lot's of strategical/cheese room. You can place a pylon in the dweb where zlots can't attack, a gate in the swarm (units produced can't be hit by goons); and early zlots/goons can jump from dweb to swarm wherever needed to fight and exploit the spells. If they go goon, hide an army in swarm lol. If they go zlot, try and move your units to get them into the dweb; this works with goons or zlots. It's like fencing, where a person might make 9 moves just to get the other person into a position where they can actually get them."

tktkvroom, yes the concept of the in base gas nat separated from the outside by neutrals is from Avatar, I acknowledged that in my first post.
spinesheath
Ok, and now show me how this could be used in a real game (except for the giving cover for your scout thing).
If you place a pylon under the dweb, it can't be killed by melee units, true. But any more stuff you build WILL be vulnerable, so the gain from that dweb is very little. If you want to defend units from ranged units under that swarm, your enemy will just sit and wait for you to go out in case of ranged units, and just attack from afar if you produce melee units in that gate.

I really doubt I will see those spells being used well in any game.
Starparty
i think differently, i think its overpowered instead, because it feels it can be exploited in some MU's. I mean, terran might be forced into bats in a PvP... yay?
kaw
i liked to see a firebat in a pvp game also..
spinesheath
kaw's good point aside,
Forced into bats? I don't think so. What for?
Nightmarjoo
Um it would take me a long time, but it's possible should you guys care enough, for me to go get a pvp game played on my one map which first incorporated swarm + dweb in main whose title I don't even remember, the map LGI deleted. Basicly, the pvp showed that if you can get into their main and micro right, you can use zlots/goons or w/e to fight vs the other unit by using the spells to your advantage. The larger than normal choke sort of allows this to happen in this map.
Odds are, it won't actually make a difference in a game, but it could, is the point.

As for the map:
Those cliff anexes into the mains with trees around them are pretty and all, but they take up necessary base room. The mains are too tight, and with no other place to use as space. For pathing/convenience reasons, you can't really use the other side of the 'C' for your unit producers, and I doubt there is enough room at the end of the 'C' near the minerals for more than just a couple, and you can't put them at the middle of the 'C' because that would hurt mobility.
gas issue
There is no expo for vert pathing. Perhaps, kill those trees and further open that path to be useable, and place a min only where the trees are now. You can dig that cave a bit into the center if you need more room, and it shouldn't hurt the middle at all.

The 'C' main hurts a bit, just kill that cliff thing =/ Hell, if you want to make a complex main shape it like 'i' -.-

Perhaps move the sl down a bit, it's imo too close to stuff. Also, with it being this close it's even less likely that the swarm/dweb will be used imo.

Be careful with the swarm, I suggest moving it and its dweb to the other side of that pocket (closer to the map edge) unless you're sure tanks cannot hit the min only cc. tvt would be a pain if they can :)

You can remove the doodads in the middle. I think they're unnecessary.

I'm sure you can make the plateaus at N/S more useful ;) Perhaps add an island? I don't think that could hurt the map, and it should add to the gameplay and use some unused space.


I have a suggestion. The Avatar nat + the min only in back make this map turtley. The concept of a spells map imo is to take what would otherwise be more of a macro-oriented map and force micro-oriented situations into it with spells or so. How about... you take the neutrals in front of the nat... remove them and replace them at the entrance of the main to the nat. Your main main entrance is untouched, but your second entrance to the nat is blocked. This would only encourage my suggestion above of moving the sl into more of the middle of the main: pathing would be ensured to be ok by moving the sl, and tanks might be an issue from the nat in its current form.

Eh, I think I had more to say. But I got distracted. And I'm going hypo glycemic. I'll maybe comment later.
The map is imo ok. It needs some work, but I think it should turn out ok. Aestetically it's good :)
Lancet
spinesheath, you probably know the answer to your own question. Whether you use an enemy's vulnerability to your advantage depends on whether the enemy allows you to do it.

Now, it is my experience that people playing experimental maps by and large ignore the fact that they are experimental and play them like classical maps as much as they can. So if you are toss and your enemy just ignores the area towards the swarm it is a good idea to try to build a gateway for example. If on the other hand your enemy keeps a unit assigned to that area you have lost the element of surprise although you may want to begin building something just to annoy and distract. The swarm-dweb will not necessarily be used, the point is that it is there and it COULD be used and you ignore it at your own peril.

As to Terran, they do not necessarily need to produce firebats, they can for example mine the swarm or place siege tanks in siege mode nearby.

Nightmarjoo your map is "Shushan Day". Your post is long I have to think about all those things. The trees on the side are to fix pathing (so units will not head for the neutrals if you order them to go North or South). I can make the mains wider (a "C" that is fatter in the middle). What do you mean "gas issue", surely not in the mains and at the level of the nat it'snot such a big deal.
modified by Lancet
Nightmarjoo
No, the map which inspired Shushan Day :) I don't remember what it's called.

Your main geysers all mine at different, and slow, rates. Gas issue :)
Lancet
Confusing. Geysers are on top in mains. Top and left mine the same and faster than right and bottom. Or do you mean to say that introducing an angle even if it is on top makes it different?
spinesheath
Only the center top position and the 2 ones to the left are recommended. Check out the chart in (2)gas_issue(o) for details.
modified by spinesheath
Lancet
Thanks spinesheath.
Lancet
OK, made the "C" mains wider, placed the geysers in the top positions and blocked passaged next to them with doodads so the pathing won't be messed. Placed minerals on the N & S plateaus. Kept the neutrals in their place. I doubt this will turn into a turtle fest because the 3rd gas & minerals within the main is very vulnerable.
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