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Last update for (4)Mazicolozist : 2007, 12, 25 02:29
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2591 (4)Mazicolozist 128*128M#0.5final

The map has been rated 60 times and got a total of 29 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Mapghost
Starts = 12M(400) 1G
Gas Expo(All) = 6M 1G
Mineral Expo = 6M

I use Null tile. You can move from starts to center or expo (=Platform Tile), but you can't move from center or expo to starts.

You can't bulid your terran and protoss buliding at your starts. if you are terran or protoss, you must have your gas expo.

I can't explain clearly because It is hard for me to explain it......;
Lancet
This is intersting but very weird and I am not sure it is playable at all. It would benefit your map if you can upload some replays. You should change the type of the map to "experimental".

I guess that what everyone has to do is mine enough minerals to expo to a "normal place". Then it will be a race to see who gets land units faster and attacks effectively. I don't know if the map would benefit from an island expo close to the starting location or from more mineral clumps at the starting location. You are going to have to check balance here, see which race has the upper hand and whether it is too much of an avantage.
PsychoTemplar
"I use Null tile. You can move from starts to center or expo (=Platform Tile), but you can't move from center or expo to starts."

Whoa that cool :X Could you tell me what tile that is? I might want to try something like this in my own map. I'll definitely give your map a spin though.
PsychoTemplar
One thing that comes to mind is inability to build static defense against Mutalisks. You should maybe put the main minerals right next to the natural, or put little buildable tiles big enough for a few cannons or turrets.
PsychoTemplar
People playing this should know that the starting hatchery does not make enough creep to build on, you have to use his preplaced creep colony.

Also, @MG, 8 o clock's SL seems to be saturated by like 8 drones, are you sure there's 12 patches there?
PsychoTemplar
Some pos imbalance concerns: Red's mineral patches look easier to hit from the side than other players, there's gas issue (workers mine at highest efficiency from left and top).
ProTosS4EveR
"Could you tell me what tile that is?"
In SCMDraft, there are black squares in "subtitle index", i don't remember the name...
PsychoTemplar
Yeah, but which one is the buildable one ;P er, at least that lets you put an sl on it?

Ohh, when you create a new map in scmdraft, you can select for the whole map to be null terrain.
modified by PsychoTemplar
Lancet
Mapghost, your map was entered in the experimental map competition, let me know if you agree. Also please consider some of the comments made here regarding editing your map.
Lancet
By the way, when I create a map with the "null terrain" option in "Space Platform" and then try to play it as Terran, first I don't get any starting SCVs and second it tells me the exit from the command center is blocked (I can't produce new units). What am I doing wrong? Thanks.
modified by Lancet
PsychoTemplar
Me too :X I was just guessing that's how he did it. I guess not. I know there's a certain tile that does work though.

EDIT: You can do it by copying and pasting the null tiles he uses on your own map, and it achieves the correct effects.
modified by PsychoTemplar
Mapghost
PsychoTemplar//

Mutalisk attack.. I Thought about that, so I set starts mineral 400 x 12. I think it will disapper when Z use 3hatchery Mutalisk (Ma Jae Yoon Savior's style).

Zerg can bulid spawning pool. I placed creep colony and creep field at starts.

8starts has 12 mineral exactly.

I placed 11 and 7 starts gas by 1/8 grid fake. the distance 11 & 7 gas is 3.125. so worker units work sluggishly.

all starts minerals can be attacked by cannon or bunker.

I used 1-15 tile in space platform tileset.
Mapghost
It is so difficult for me to make a lot of sentences.. ; I'm just 17-year-old student in korea..;

but, I thank for your interest :)
modified by Mapghost
Mapghost
Lancet//

I agree with your invitation about map competetion. thanks :)

when you use 1-15 null tile, it will works correctly.
Lancet
Thanks mapghost but I have no idea what you are talking about when you say tiles 1-15.

In any case it's not important as I copied and pasted from your map like templar suggested (clever fellow). I am experimenting with this tileset, it's a bit akward. Workers sometimes don't go to rally points within it or mine and then go off the nul tiles. Having patches of "normal" terrain within the nul tiles can also create problems as any worker that drifts there will become trapped. I'll let you know what else I find and I think templar may be doing the same so I am interested in what he finds too.

It's a good idea in the particular case of your map to play a game against someone (the computer cannot handle this map) to test exactly how gameplay proceeds here.
DG)SpoilR
Now even the startpositions hover in space.What's the next step ?!?

Well I see how a terran can handle this "situation" with their mobile CC, but how should deal a zerg or a toss with ?!?

Before you implement a new idea in a map, maybe you should think awhile about the consequences.

Couldn't hurt!
modified by DG)SpoilR
Mapghost
Lancet//
tile number 1-15. when you select Tileset indexed menu, you can see tile number.

DG)SpoilR//
Zerg can use their hatchery for create units and build spire or defiler mound. but protoss can't.

but i don't think it is important. stacked mineral cause good efficiency. especially to protoss.(probe can gather when other worker build buldings) so i think it can cover protoss imba.
PsychoTemplar
It's kinda like fort, but you choose your natural :D
PsychoTemplar
Mapghost, the minerals mine super slow :( (just try doing any build order, and you'll find your short of minerals). Please experiment with mineral formations, or make a note in op post that minerals are slow.
Mapghost
PsychoTemplar//
in 0.9 ver, it doesn't have any mineral problem. but 0.95 does. i will modify it soon. Thanks
mapghost
It has been Modified.

you can build turret or cannon in cursor mark rectamgle at your starts.

I place mineral wall. 4M(skyblue color) is 0 value. other 7(or8)M is 8 value.

your gas expo has 9M(3M 1500, 6M 750).

starts minerals have been changed. 100M(40value)

Lancet
How did you make the null terrain buildable? Also, what editor are you using? I am using scmdraft2 and I still can't find numbered tiles (the only numbers I see are for the size of the cursor).

As to the new version of the map, now there is one additional problem. The players are going to have to fill all the buildable space with defense structures or units to prevent a drop. Moving workers around nul tiles to build or units to defend is a bit problematic, sometimes your unit doesn't follow your command or go to a rally point. It goes in another direction so you have to micromanage it to the site you want. and so forth.

It think what makes the null tile unique is the ability of workers (and other units in case of zerg) to "slide" into any type of adyacent terrain and the fact that your position can't be scouted or attacked by land or with drops (if you make it right). The disadvantage is that you are vulnerable to air attacks and you have to deal with some bugs with regards to mining and moving workers around.

ProTosS4EveR
Oh i remember i made a map with null terrain and creep was normal, i will search it and i will tell you if i refound it.

rofl hallucinated mienral fields!! xD
modified by ProTosS4EveR
Mapghost
Lancet//

buildable null tile is the first tile. 0-0.
the tile number is in title of tileset indexed window.

moving bug is unique problem of null tile... so i can't fix it. it's just worker's a.i error. so do rally point problem. it's just rally point system's error.

you can scout your enemy. your enemy must have his expo. so you can surmise where enemy is in.
Lancet
Thanks mapghost, let me clarify what I said about scouting.

What I meant is that your starting location (SL) in the null tiles cannot be scouted (and here I mean by land) if it is large enough. If the SL has access to an expo on high ground or a low ground expo blocked by a neutral or other barrier, your enemy will not know you are there at least by sending a scouting worker. Of course there are overlords, observers and comsat but overlords are slow, and observers and comsat take time.
mapghost
Starts Mineral changed.
40quantity x 100 -> 20quantity x 100

Mineral wall have placed more close to 3 and 9.

many other bug have fixed.
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