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Last update for (2)Temple at Ghelia : 2008, 01, 10 04:47
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2708 (2)Temple at Ghelia 96*96Lancet1.4experimentalground

The map has been rated 41 times and got a total of 58 points
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Comments:   GMCS (2 elements)


lancet
OK, my first map of 2008! The hill behind the nat can be used for attack or defense but it represents a second entry site to the main (blocked by a neutral on the other side) so ignore it at your own risk.

The map may be a bit tight but there are a lot of "holes" for units to get through and flank.

I think the map may have too much gas but the expos at 3 and 9 seemed to me to be so vulnerable that I just made an extra (island) gas expo in the NW and SE corners. Should I make the expos at 3 and 9 minonlies?

The clump of trees next to the temple can be used to hide units or even buildings.

HEY GUYS, DON'T FORGET TO VOTE FOR EMOTY, (4)MOTY and (2)MOTY!
Beater
A nice little map.

You can't make a comsat station at the top left island.
LGI
Small mains, and FFS - TWO PATHS!!!!
Lancet
Thanks for your comment Beater I will fix that. LGI there is enough room to start the game and then you can build outside on the nat space but I will try to widen the mains a little. What do you mean by: "FFS - TWO PATHS!!!!"?
NastyMarine
I love the decoration
LGI
Nah... I am tired of typing the same again and again... I really should write an article about that, but... Shit i hope StarParty is able to explain the "TWO PATH" thing... Because even people with enough experience like NastyMarine still haven't realize the "TWO PATH" thing...

Sorry for this comment, i hope they are people here, who want to explain it...
uC.MorroW
LGI you are stupid, why , i dont know.

map looks better without the sprites in middle with just trees :)

the decoration is very good

the mains mineral placement in main is bad cuse it is too wide. there are 3 openings in the minerals which is too much i promise u. copy from a pro map or try better self i tell u.

remove some of the "rocky cliffs" under the main to make main alittle larger.

else, decoration is very nice and good map :)

having 2 islands next to each other like that is very interesting. first i thought "w/e" but now i think of how the drop wars will work^^
Lancet
I am planning to make the mains larger but I wanted to prevent a sieged tank from shooting the nearest expo, that's why I placed those cliffs there. The sprite-trees is a feature that makes the map unique and follows my earlier map "Trees of Ghelia". They are at a central location so hiding units there can be important for map control.

Hey what do you guys think about the gas? Is there too much gas? Should I make the expos at 3 and 9 minonlies?
LGI
uC.MorroW, suck my balls. Why? Because i like it that way.
Nightmarjoo
uC.MorroW, suck LGI's balls. Why? Because he likes it that way.

I dare someone to censor this and leave Morrow's post the way it is.
Nightmarjoo
Lancet there is barely any room in the mains =/ bare in mind how many depots/pylons have to be placed. So you can't take shit, yay! but you also can't get 10 minutes into the game without being cramped out of your mind. Building in these mains will make you feel like a woman giving birth to a baby (lots of painful cramping for the bwm members idiots out there).
The lack of a solid 3rd base I think really hurts the map.
The neutral building would imo be better placed on the ramp close to you.

LGI, that circle of trees is almost all made of sprites, not physical doodads, except a ring of doodads forming paths where the trees are and the side of the trees.
Because that circle of trees isn't solid, the thing creating even paths is that temple doodad, which is not very large, so the even path problem shouldn't apply.

Lancet, what LGI is talking about is the fact that your map has an even number of paths. This can fuck things up on maps with larger path divisions because since you have symmetry and an even number of paths, units may split and be undecided when crossing the map for a lack of mobility and flanking etc. If you want proof that this sucks, try playing tvp on Baekdu. It's almost impossible unless the protoss is retarded; the middle path is tight on baekdu so for tanks and goons you essentially have the even path problem. It's something that most mappers get around by creating 4 player maps with open middles, or 2 player maps with a direct main path.
LGI
I dare you do it one more time and you will be fucked up, trust me!
LGI
Well i didn't know you can move units under those trees. I don't use sprites and i rarely use StarForge or SCMDraft... Sorry for that.

Anyway there is one more thing about the two paths. In maps like (2)Doughnut by MilleniumArmy if you click move from main to main, units will choise one of the routes all the time, and thats how 1/2 of the map will stay hidden. The feel in game for a smooth and comfortable game play will be focused on the part where the units are going. This will make the map 75% games will played on only one of the sides. While the other will stay hidden.

For me the solution is to have always to have 1,3,5,7 paths, not 2,4,6.
uC.MorroW
i reccomend SCMdraft2 alot, there is a randomize mineral tool that randomises all minerals into 3 different types of look.. easier work :)

the neutral buildings r gr8 placed i think

please, please bigger mains i beg u
Nightmarjoo
LGI I didn't censor your post.
Lancet
OK, I see what you mean. Hey LGI if you don't want to have to repeat this just either write an article about it or write down in which map thread it was explained and in the future just reference the map thread.

As it turns out, like Nightmarjoo said, the temple is small and yes you can go under those trees. Units moving from main to main normally just chose one path, large number of units moving from a nat to the other player's main can be split but it is not a big deal (here).

I envision most games will be over in this map before you need a third expo but still I did not want to make the third expo a cakewalk.

I will work on the mains give me some time tothink about it,thanks.
modified by Lancet
Lancet
OK, I have widened the mains and changed the shape and position of the mineral lines. When you play the map also consider building in the nat area though. I also fixed the island problem with the CC.

Nobody has yet answered the direct question I have posted several times. Is there too much gas in this map? Should I make the expos at 3 and 9 minonlies?

Thanks.
modified by Lancet
LGI
It's fine, imo...

You can even add two more expands min only. Check GMCS.
Lancet
Thanks LGI but first wouldn't that just be too many minerals for a 96x96 map? and second, aren't those locations too central and expossed?

In fact, you guys know what I am thinking? I'm thinking of making a minonly in the NW and SE corners and doing away with the high ground gas expo altogether. You would have access to a third ground expo relatively close to your nat (horizontally) but if you wanted to get a third gas you would have to really "go out" and risk it on the 3 and 9 expos.

Do you guys think that layout would be an improvement over the current one? Thanks.
Nightmarjoo
It ought to help. You might also consider moving the NW/SE wall ring closer to the corners to open the middle and make the mineral only areas less vast. It would disturb the incomplete circle shape, but I think it'd help the map overall be more modern-player friendly.
LGI
Imo, the expansions number + those two that i point in GMCS is ok. I give it those location, because in game play it's more important to have expansions on-the-ways-to-your-opponent, then making it in corners... That way you keep the comfortable feel of a safe expansion. People can react more easier to defend it.

For example (4)Phynton. After your nat, every other expansion is wide spread all over the map. This makes it more harder to defend and take. Yes, a lot of people like that map, but i am sure you play the map and had the feel that it's harder to defend your expansion.

For example (2)BlitzX, people feel more comfortable because their expands are close, easy to reach and defend.

Or thats just me... :)

P.S. I think every Z and T user can say the same, while P users can make their deffence a lot more easier and faster.
Crackling
1. wrong tileset
2. unplayable map
3. lancet you suck at bw, means you suck at theorycrafting, sry.
Lancet
OK I will work on the edits. Crackling can you please write say a few sentences explaining your comments about the map, thanks.
uC.MorroW
1. wrong tileset

wtf, its a question of taste, just as unlogical to say "why did you not like this food"

2. unplayable map
you are here to help, writing that doesnt help at all
Lancet
OK, widened the central "circle" and axed the island expo in favor of a minonly. You want third gas you need to risk it with the 3 and 9 expos which also have lots of minerals. In any case I think most games will be over before third gas.
Nightmarjoo
You made the mineral only a lot safer than I expected, especially given your concept and how you want the game to play.
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