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Last update for ICCup Python 1.3 : 2013, 06, 01 11:35
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2863 ICCup Python 1.3 128*128Terrance1.4iccupground

The map has been rated 62 times and got a total of 89 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


MorroW
best replay ive seen in a while
SiaBBo
This map is so shit.
MorroW
this most balanced map so far imo

and it rocks ^^

tho i dont like corners at 11 and 5
SiaBBo
I think this is pretty boring.

-Natural's entrance is huge.
-3rd gas is too hard to zerg. It is too hard defend corners and exp to another spawn is bad idea too.
-Middle is too big.
MorroW
"-Natural's entrance is huge."
part of the balancing

"-3rd gas is too hard to zerg. It is too hard defend corners and exp to another spawn is bad idea too."
part of maps concept, and the distances and open area makes it possible for zerg to expand

"-Middle is too big."
thats your opinion and i respect that
SiaBBo
I just think it's too basic.
MorroW
thats the idea
all maps got their different concepts and shit
and this map i just expand and then make 7 factoreis and masses units until the game is over. its so damn fun
SiaBBo
Yes, everytime when i play this too it's just 160-200/200. This map is just better LT. :b

Map is good, but it is too basic or boring.
Nightmarjoo
This is one of the best maps ever made imo, it's only "boring" because it's become the staple map. Conceptually/executionally it's pretty brilliant.
trcc
I'm just wondering if mutalisk harass is overpowered on python since the mains are fairly close to each other?

If this map is "the map" atm, then why aren't we focusing on making a map that matches its level of gameplay and balance. Like some said, it looks boring to play but if the progamers likes it..


And all ICCup maps have broken links to both picture and map.. O.o
modified by trcc
Nightmarjoo
It's ok, iccup never used these links anyway. Should probably delete them. We're missing a lot of pro maps for the same reason sadly.

Progamers play whatever they need to practice for proleague, msl, osl, gom, etc. The map is popular on bnet because it's basic and balanced.

bwm mappers hardly focus on making maps for motm, let alone focus on actually making good maps for tournaments, iccup, potentially tsl2, etc. I could give bwm mappers some direction as to how to make great maps, but 1. I could be wrong but mostly 2. nobody but Testbug listens to me. And coincidentally, only Testbug accomplishes anything.

/bitter rant.
trcc
Well as you said, it really depends on how far the mappers here want to push their map.

Some of us might just come here to post their work, play with friends but nothing else.
Some might take this really seriously and try to make the map perfect.

There is no specific place for each level of mapping on the site, so I sometime read a few comments by members and those comments are really progaming oriented even if their goal is probably not to get their map to that skill level.

anyway, you could give some general directions though like

- this amount of minerals
- this amount of gas
- distances from main to nat ( average )
- etc

This would only apply to fairly standard maps though or to some experimental maps at some extend.

Or we could gather all the these information on python and recreate a simple but very different looking map with the same standard values/distances.. I don't know if you get my point, maybe thats what you and testbug are already working on



ProTosS4EveR
i understood

personally, i was working on the map based on python mains but it wasn't as i wanted and stopped the map
PsychoTemplar
"We're missing a lot of pro maps for the same reason sadly."

I used to upload them right as they came out, but I gave up on that when it seemed no one cared and it became more difficult without admin rights.

As far as progaming balance goes in general... I think one minor thing that's going to need to start being picked up on, is that minerals should be on the same side of the start location for all players... The advantage that comes from speeding up your mining either because of a building placement, or because of the larvae trick makes differences in games that are similar to the gas issue.

As for the popularity of this map on battle.net... I think we have Klazart to thank for that, saying that he wanted to have this maps babies and junk. Lots of noobs love Klazart, and hearing him say this will make them want to try it more than any other map. Conceptually, I don't think it was that original at all. There have always been maps where you could take a quick island if you wanted. The only difference in this map is that the middle is completely desolate, clean and huge. It really doesn't support as huge a variety of strats as some people like to claim.
DG)SpoilR
XD.It's the most basic map ever played in leagues I ever remember.It's plain and boring & racially imba, additionally.What for sake is here original, no serious? I guess every idiot can adapt on such map cuz it has no special features in it. Just because t-players have adapt doesn't make it less imba;still z>p>>>t.Muta harass is devastastating if you start next to the other player.Arena/LT are alot more interessting than this junk.

And giving directions(trcc) is to set boundaries which means to suffocate creativity. So i disagree,so long a map is balanced. To tell noobs some basics about how to make a map is one thing, but it is more than ridiculous to believe that some given stardards can help to improve maps. Saying that evry map must have an certain resource amount,or a given main-nat distance,is wishful thinking. And I think skilled mappers won't ever accept such claims
Grief_Stricken
why not? let's start to make python clones for sake ;) let's see who can do the best -_-

like the db is not already full of lt clones. sure, lets ape previous works. not to create our own standards,lets copy those from others
DG)SpoilR
Hi Grief! How's tricks?
Grief_Stricken
when i have to read stuff like this, just like a dying duck in a thunderstorm. and this even from trcc,that i respect for being creative in the past with maps like signal,the barrens or mc
trcc
I'm not saying we must copy python, I'm saying if after what, 4 years now? BMW didnt produce one single map that has been played in korean leagues, it's either

1. They don't want to incorporate our maps in their map rotation

2. Our map are just not good enough


Grief I don't want mappers to stop being creative, just saying that we must define what directions we must have to take our maps to another level of respectability by the biggest starcraft communities.

Just forget the boundaries I said earlier, I'm just throwing stuffs away without thinking, I just want us to move on and make maps that will not only be played by a few.

I'm not a good starcraft player at all, so when I see Nightmarjoo writing an essay about python saying its the best map, I trust him. But is he right? I don't know, you tell me. If python is considered as a pro map and is played by thousands of players, I guess it's not that bad.

What happens to the bad maps? They get removed, no?


To psychotemplar: Does vertical mineral harvest faster than horizontal or its the other way around?

To grief: If you want to make your own standards, go for it. But are you sure people will recognize them as good standards? We have to go with what people like in order to get our maps played. Or we can make an experimental map that is very balanced, but then we don't have enough man power to prove its balanced. So how could we make koreans play a map that is "supposly balanced to us" but that was never to their eyes.

This is why I used python as an example. If it gets played by thousands of players, if we take its standards points and sort of "copy" them, and incorporate them in a completly different map, it SHOULD produce a map that wouldn't need as much testing as a completly new experimental map.

W/e, let's keep producing maps that will never achieve anything! Thats almost what were doing now except for a few maps that get pushed into ICCup.
modified by trcc
Grief_Stricken
i understand your thoughts trcc, honestly. i wanna see just like you bwmn maps in leagues - interessting ones. but some of the solutions you propose in your first comment won't solve the problem at all. you say "BMW didnt produce one single map that has been played in korean leagues, it's either

1. They don't want to incorporate our maps in their map rotation

2. Our map are just not good enough"

agreed with the 1-st alternative. why? because bwmn never has a lobby in any league. if you don't have any support from them nor attention you can't expect things change easily. the fact that we don't have bwmn maps in k-leagues personally doesn't hurt me so much because koreans always lived in there own world, but the fact that the foreign leagues support the same damn maps is for me a sign of poorness & obedience. why icc for example has to support these stup maps? just because they are played in k-leagues? or because k-gamers are the best? or because it's fancy to play the same maps they see in the vods,reps? this are shitty argues - they ape everything what comes from korea in the meanwhile. the question is why the rest of the world has to ape the koreans? let them play whatever they want in their leagues, and all the non k-league should have their own mappacks. that would be in my eyes a proof of competence for the hosts of these leagues. and would make the non k-leagues really interessting and distinct. at the moment it doesn't cares in what league you playin', you became the same bunch of crap as mappack -5% to play. i think if non k-leagues would have their own mappacks it would be easier to beat k-gamers 'cause they have to elaborate on different strategies for these maps, but so long we play their own maps...

a other reason why bwmn maps don't became the chance to have league maps is that even here, where we should develop new ideas, we begun to ape k-promaps. why should anyone pick our maps in a league when on the first page the posted pictures of the maps look very often like well known k-maps. look i don't want to harm anyone but in order to understand me i have to become a bit more concrete. look to the actual motm pic. and now look to ungoro crater. texcoco looks like ungoro with a dif. middle. now tell me why should they pick this map? i don't say it's a clone but i hope you understand my point - i miss new impulses.and it looks like just because the site awards these trendy maps it doesn't help these maps to become league maps. in the past your signal, rubi or sp's sattarchasm doesn't become league maps because they have been like previous maps, rather because they brought new elements in the game itself, thanks to their unusual creative concepts. and this is right path the site has to follow - the reward will come, because some host will see the difference. we don't have to care about sales volume.

you are right - bwmn is not respected much in the communities atm, but one of the reasons is they don't know us good enough or at all. how can i respect & appreciate something idk yet? we have under all these 3500 maps alot of good maps, and just because they aren't played it doesn't make them less good. what we need are good relations to the hosts of the leagues, so that we can test evry interessting map to the bones with pros, to make some changes when necessary before they add it to a mappack. one remark: people that pushing their own maps, are unfit for this job - 'cause this is the end of obiectivity. it will require something like a council to pick/discuss about which maps are worth to become league maps.

on the other hand idk, when sc2 will be available all these maps will become history. if we really can change something till then...?!
LasTCursE
hey guys you know in python the colors are different than usual they are (yellow,oranje,lt blue,grayish,lt yellow and more) is there anybody that knows how to make one map whit theese kind of colors ?
ProTosS4EveR
change it map description in scmdraft
but don't use bright blue bocause it make the black color ingame
LasTCursE
ok i will try
Nightmarjoo
Psychotemplar I can definitely give you admin rights if you would be willing to fix all our missing pro maps :O
I would greatly appreciate it, everytime I want to see a pro map pic I go to bwm but bwm doesn't always have it so I have to go to tlpd, which uses old version pics sometimes.

I'll explain why I think python is amazing later :O

I agree with Grief that I'm not too shocked that bwm doesn't have a map in any korean league, but we should atleast be able to get a map into more foreign stuff, especially tsl2, if it ever happens!
Gnom
Download broken!
crystaldrag
Go download the iCCup mappack....
Or go to any 1v1 or 2v2 on iCCup....
Or go to any 1v1 or 2v2 on USEAST,WEST,ASIA,Europe..
Gnom
Europe is nearly dead :(
Sry to bump dead threads.
Replays


--PP vs ReD(1on1, 1.15)
--ZealMaster vs Adx(1on1, 1.15)
-- vs Ahah.HeaT(1on1, 1.16)
--m)t(inept vs Ouch(1on1, 1.16)

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