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Last update for (2)Balderdash1.5 : 2008, 04, 18 05:56
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2886 (2)Balderdash1.5 128*128illisid0.4betaground

The map has been rated 31 times and got a total of 13 points
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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


illisid
hey guys im new :D

few things about this one:
there is a tiny ramp at the peninsula of your main blocked by a 250 mineral block

it isnt 100% symetrical, but i dont think it matters. honestly i dont like 100% symmetry.

also, the picture i took kinda sucks... can someone make a better picture? (you dont have to -_-)

Edit:
there used to be some uber suckage ramps at the top. now theyre just kinda suckage. thanks for that spaceramp tileset :)
modified by illisid
NastyMarine
lol i was in a play called blather blarney and balderdash :)

for those of you who don't know what balderdash means ---> it means bullshit.
modified by NastyMarine
cWn)iQ.Superi0r
the maps looks interesting, first expansion is difficult to hold but the distance of the start lokation is long so this might help so... i think i have to paly it before keeping judging
spinesheath
pathing is bad
LML
I think this will be played air based.
LML
oh, also the colours are pretty fucked xP
did you 1st resize with paint and then saved it as .jpg? if so, 1st save it as .jpg, then resize;)
Crackling
fixed pic :D
SiaBBo
Terran can lift cc to corners pretty easy. Zerg will be dead.. It is pretty impossible defend "natural". And we all know zerg need second gas.

Pathing is bad, yes..

It is:
T>Z Zerg can't take his natural easy.
T>P Terran can defend pretty easy.. Maybe little tight. And lots of "tankcliffs".
P>Z Zerg can't defend expansions so well..
modified by SiaBBo
MorroW
i overall dont think this could be a serious map that i would enjoy to play. tho i like the bridges but ive seen them before :P
illisid
@ nastymarine: haha yea i just chose the first thing that came to mind... i dont think the name fits the map.

@ spinesheath: ive noticed, you cant send units from your base to theirs, they tend to bunch at the small ramp.

@ crackling: THANKS! wha'd you use to get this pic?

@ SiaBBo: i can make the ramps closer together, whould that help the zerg issue? im no good with zerg, so i dont know how to balance them. all i know is to make the entrance to the main open :P
also, i put a blockade thingy in front of the important cliffs. the tankcliffs are only the outside of the top base (left side) and the elevated catwalk... and i think those cliffs are fine tankable. you dont usually move a main army through those spots. (i think)

i knew this map would need work haha. i like the deco on it tho :D
spinesheath
Oh, btw: Don't use stairs. Though you can fit goons and the likes through them, it requires way too much "micro".
illisid
ahaha i didnt even realize you could fit goons through >_<
should i try to make it smaller, so goons cant even try to fit? would that make them go around instead of swarm the stair?
spinesheath
Nope, they would still get stuck there; at least most of the time.
illisid
OK so I put the ramp for the natural closer to the ramp to the main, and filled out the area at the top between the nat and the main base. hopefully this will help zerg? i donno.

also i added a thin fork off of the bridge. big units can fit easy enough, but an army cant. i think this will make cool microing for smaller units? perhaps.

i still dont know how to fix the pathing thing besides remove that stair. but i kinda like the stairway.

oh also i only did these changes to the top so far... not enough time in the day :P
modified by illisid
modified by illisid
Lancet
illisid interesting map but you still have the problem with zerg. The point is that because zerg can only build on creep it's intial bases (main and nat) have to be connected so that by placing sunkens on the creep of the nat it can stop units from getting to the main (you invest your resources in defending the nat to defend the main; the nat "defends" the main). In your map the main and nat are disconnected. One possible solution is to place a neutral creep colony next to the two ramps.

Did you add a fork to the bridge on the lower left end of your map? If so update your picture.
modified by Lancet
illisid
Thanks Lancet. No I haven't changed the bottom half yet, haha i have work to do :P is the fork good?

for adding neutral buildings, do you just place them on? i thought they disappeared if you werent doing UMS, so you had to place them some special way...
modified by illisid
Starparty
this could turn out to be interesting tbh. pimpfactor 6/10 so far
NastyMarine
i dont see it :o
illisid
k i made the bottom match the top and stuck a colony there... the area near the ramp on the mains looks a little bare at the moment, dont have any more time to work on it today.
MorroW
can som1 plz show me a reverse stair ? :D
illisid
OK more changes. got rid of that ugly catwalk expo and made some swanky decoration there. finally ditched the stairs, the pathing issue was just too annoying. opened up a section of the wall. AND fixed the terran float issue. mineral field = 0

morrow i tried. its impossible D:
cause the stair is only 2 tiles wide. you cant extend it either. :(
modified by illisid
Lancet
I would push the edges of the main's outward extensions to create a narrow path of access to the nat (see GMCS). This will make it harder to contain a player by placing an army on the bridge. Also I don't know if you may want to place a minonly in those outward extensions too?
illisid
ooh i like that :) unfortunately, this gets rid of the original s-shape, but whatever. how big do you think the path should be? 1 space may be too small, but 2 might get rid of too much of the peninsula-thing.

and i considered making that spot a min-only (actually at first i thought it would be the nat) but i like it being an outpost. but ill put it in see how it works.

also, those colonies dont show up in-game. how do you make them show up?
modified by illisid

EDIT:

k i did the path thingy. also i figured out how to put a creep in the game, just put the sprite down. (i dunno if thats what youre supposed to do, but thats what i did and it worked) but the sprite doesnt show up on the picture... and i didnt put the minonly in that peninsula yet, still debating whether or not i should...
modified by illisid

RE-EDIT:

so i just stuck a building under the sprite so it will show up on the pic. and it wont show up in-game.
modified by illisid
illisid
So is it done? I'm kinda out of ideas for now of what to do with it. any more feedback?

I was thinking that if I did put a minonly on that peninsula thing then it should either have low minerals per field, like 500, or a low number of fields, like 4 or 5.

Also I still need a new name for it... Balderdash doesn't really fit...
modified by illisid
illisid
hey could someone good please play my map? ive played this map a bunch with my friends, but we are far from pro-play.

also, my friend said his goons were having retarded problems with pathing in some areas. as in it was pointless to use ground units. i never encountered this problem, but maybe im lucky.
Starparty
i dig this, its knd of the same touch of a blizz original map - but better..
Lancet
Looks much better although it may still be too tight for zerg or toss who need flanking room to attack. The tightness of the map may favor terran but only testing will tell. You should upload your replays, they don't have to be "pro" quality.
modified by Lancet
illisid
haha kay there's one... i'd still like to see someone good play it O_o
illisid
yeeah so.. any more suggestions? i really cant think of anything else to do with it. i still want to see what a terran push looks like on this map... none of my friends can pull a successful one, and i suck at terran >_>
aww, someone rated it a 0...
modified by illisid
Rye
Ratings mean nothing. D:<
illisid
*REPLAYS*

these are much better than the first.
the second one especially... neither of us are terran players, but it shows off the map well.
Nightmarjoo
look at difference between your map and a "standard" map. Your map is too tight, pathing is narrow and annoying, flanking is hard, your mains are oddly shaped and have weird sizes, the creep can be abused, the nat is pretty far from the main, the 3rd base is really far away, the distances from everything is really far away actually, your gigantic main choke is really hard to defend, it's not really a choke, the tank holes by your nat are kind of annoying and not the same for both nats, same for min only, there really isn't much money in the map, and it's spread out, hard to take, hard to defend, and the map as a whole is tight and hard to move through/around, which is silly normally, and even more so silly because of how much mobility you need to use all the stupid expos.
Nightmarjoo
I have a friend who wants to test bwm maps with me, and I could test this, but I wouldn't find anything outside of everything I just listed above. The map needs more work before it can be playtested imo.
illisid
i see.
ok. never really thought about the necessity of mobility in this map. can i write this off as a newbie mistake? :P
i thought the amount of paths offset the tightness... dont multiple methods of attack = less tightness?
Nightmarjoo
it depends ._. When those paths are so far apart it takes forever to get to one area or path from another, then no.
Lancet
You can make the map more open by getting rid of the central holes and adjacent high ground (see GMCS) and you can also widen the lateral (non-bridge) access route to the nat. This will provide more flanking room in the center.
illisid
i was thinking the exact same thing earlier, and have begun working on that ^_^

i also thought i could add a min-only next to the bridge (close to base).
i went back to the idea of having a few mins on the peninsula, but i dont think i want it to be a full base... im thinkin only 4 mineral fields, or low money mineral fields.
then i think i want to move the corner expos around.

the three gmcs i marked also apply to the mirror positions, i just thought posting twice was unnessecary.

hey can you remove this map from this month's competition?
Lancet
Yes, we can remove the map, you really want us to do that?

Also, you want a better challenge when playing against the comp? Check out these alternative AIs (AI = artifical intelligence) at:

http://www.entropyzero.org/BroodwarAI.html

the Raynor 2.0 program as zerg FEs all the time and also puts up a better fight than the AI that comes with the Starcraft program.

The downside is no one will be able to watch the replays you play against these AIs unless they also download this program.
illisid
i had no idea this mod existed (hah i know what AI means :P)

i only want you to remove the map from the competition. it only takes up space there, and i still have work to do on it. ill see if it will be good my the next months competition.

oh how do you put neutral units on? when i tried, it only got the non-interactive sprite...
modified by illisid

also i looked at that site and i have a few questions.
what happens if im playing 2v2 comps and only one has the mod?
how will it affect battle.net games with comps?
it says it requires the cd, but what if you have already messed with the files so it can run nocd (from the latest update)
modified by illisid
illisid
WOOO flood my own map's thread with comments!
aanyways...
--i added that min-only i was thinkin about, but the one on top has an iffy blend...
--i turned the peninsula into a semi-island, cause the minerals there are 750 each.
--i killed the holes and high in the middle... but i didnt want it 100% open, so i put some sticky doodads there. only some though. and that could possibly change too.
--and those weird marks are supposed to be eggs, but i couldnt find out how to make them units. they will guard against the tank drops once they work, cause it takes quite a bit to kill an egg. not worth the effort in my opinion.
--oh i also changes the choke, now its more chokey.
modified by illisid

sorry guys i keep bunping this, but changed some more.
--added another ramp to the highground expo
--moved the lowground expo forward
--widened the entrance to the 2nd gas expo (at the sides)
modified by illisid
MorroW
cant u make a new map? ... :D
illisid
ill make another when this is done. i'd like to get my first map up to par first ;)

oh yeah i forgot... i fixed the eggs. they work now... no tank spots in nats.
Lancet
Ugh, that in-base minonly looks just plain weird the way it is. I can tank red's nat gas from several positions along the west rim of the nat whereas I could only tank blue's from one position. Bring blue's nat minerals and gas out a little. The new bridge to land transition in the corners looks strange but what the hell. Make the creep of the colonies show in the map.
Rye
It seems to me that all the min clusters are placed in exactly the same way unless they're curved facing either north or south. It looks... uniform... mins should look like they're randomly placed. :)
Nightmarjoo
Think more standard :(
illisid
hah yea i just realized 4 of my bases have the same layout. gonna fix that.

western rim of red's? i stuck eggs all over that so it wouldnt be tankable...where is it tankable?

and more standard as in layout?
Lancet
See GMCS, you fixed the tank drop spots not the tankablity from the rim (which is unequal for both nats). Hey, next time you update the map there is an option to erase the old GMCS.
illisid
hmm so i think i fixed the tank-y thing-y.

also im toying with the idea of removing the peninsula. this is what it looks like like that.
(i kept the old version)
i also took the extra space to the side of the main and extended the main.
i kinda dont like how it looks as much, but i can fix that if this turns out to be a better idea.
modified by illisid
Replays


--Illisid vs DimpDiMp(1on1, 1.16)
--illisid vs Mann_O_Death(1on1, 1.16)
--illisid vs Mann_O_Death(1on1, 1.16)

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