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Last update for (4)Sleepers : 2008, 10, 20 21:49
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2924 (4)Sleepers 128*96Crackling1.8betaground

The map has been rated 56 times and got a total of 100 points
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Comments:   GMCS (1 elements)


Crackling
my first map in space tilesset :)

no doodads yet :D

if some1 has a better idea for main deco give it me <.<
Excalibur
Saosin song name = instant win.
Testbug
pruple gass can be tanked from island
old granny in a wheelchair
This post is not displayed due to its content
Lancet
Well Crackling you have surprised me, this is a great idea.

The geysers in the gas nats have to be all either towards the center or towards the main. Do you want to place a mineral block on those islands? Also make sure small units like lings can't cross into the gas nat area in teal and purple's bases by those narrow paths (see GMCS).
Nightmarjoo
I really don't like it. I refuse to test this with you Crackling.
ProTosS4EveR
spermatozoid party
spinesheath
What's so bad about it, NM? Could be a little tight.
Crackling
noobmajoo was just joking, np

thx for gmcs gonna fix those with doodads soon
MorroW
i think u should replace the minonly with the lowground. i mean put the min-only 8min 1 gas and lowground 7 mineral. zvt you know~~ (tbh i think 8 is too much for an nat so maybe 7 min in both and 1 gas in nat) also the islands should have 7 instead of 8, damn this is much minerals

in the low ground expansions u should put the minerals mirrored, god damn compare red to purple if vultures wanted to harass

u should block the sides around the space to low platform, so units like zerglings doesnt take a shortcut ;)

and btw tanks from island can hit both nat and lowground (just wanted to share that)

one of purples reverse ramp is misstiled

- ok so its very welldone (sizes of mains, islands etc) make main decoration like square^^

gj :D
Crackling
how do i decorate space? _ _
i dunno lol (_)/

fixed those lingpaths, fixed purple gas

actually i wanted it to be like this and yes i'm also a bit worried about ZvT but nostalgia showed that its fine >.<
testing will show :D

morrow i dont see which of both lowground of purpe and red is easier/better to harrass, explain plz :D

only problem left right now are the lowground gases, they arent all same valnurable but if i mirror them, there will be gas issue O_O

well does it matter THAT much, i mean those expos wont be taken THAT fast anyways right?

so maybe it wont be that bead, will it? :/

MorroW
reds point out to middle, purples doesnt, this will affect balancing alot in tvp and tvz (i believe)

space is easiest to doodad, cuse u wont need over 100 doodads for it to look good :)
Crackling
but joel i made all those ovispots only for you :'(
LML
the mineralplacement in those lowergrounds are pretty imba.
blue's shows to red;
red's shows to teal;
teal's shows to purp;
but purp's shows to his own nat, not to blue... much easier to defend from ranged units, you should fix that.
Rye
Map is amazing, but I don't like the square-things in the mains. It makes my head hurt. :S

<3 the middle.
Crackling
Fixed purps lowgroundexpo minerals
spinesheath
Btw, you might consider converting the islands into semi-islands or even connect them to the middle and/or naturals.
(because imo it's more likely for a terran to use those islands than for a zerg)
Crackling
This post is not displayed due to its content
flothefreak
nice idea with that backdoor concept.
though i dont know if it works balancewise because the attackable gasnatural is SO far pushed into the center. distances are so short and it is hella exposed, especially causing problems in ZvT PvT and maybe PvZ imo.

also, your concept takes away very large amounts of space which you'd need for the rest of the map.

my conclusion to this would be to take the basic concept and apply it to a new 2player map: then you dont have to place the backdoor in such an extremly dangerous spot (better make it somehow equivalent in accessability to the entrance-covering minonly) and you can twist the whole setup to leave room for the map and its gameflow and a more comfortable overall structure.
Crackling
well thx for suggestions i'll think about it >.<

i was just thinking of how to make ZvT easier and maybe placing a creep colony on the island instead of the mineral would be better?
so z wont even need to kill it to place the hatch and could get sunks up emmidiatly?!

or even place a neutral hatch/lair/hive instead of the creepcolony there?

so t/p take WAY much time to get the island?


...still searching for a better main deco, i dislike those of Square but i thought of sth like geometry?
modified by Crackling
spinesheath
How about extending the spermatozoid party ((C)P4E) to the mains?^^
Lancet
Crackling it is OK if the gas in the nats has a gas issue, the most important is the main. Either all your gas has to be sheltered or all your gas has to be vulnerable, otherwise it is imbalanced.
Crackling
i dont get what you want to say lancet?
MorroW
put all gasses at same position
spinesheath
Red and blue have a save gas at the natural, while the others don't.
Crackling
, the most important is the main. Either...

he said sth about the main, thats what i dont get :D

...fixed

i say what what in the butt
i say what what in the butt
modified by Crackling
MorroW
make main like Vacuum ;)
Crackling
no they are crappy :D
MorroW
ye i agree but u wont get annoyed on it like here
Crackling
ok you guys choose one lol :D
Grief_Stricken
at first sight you could suppose the map is fine.but it's not as simple as that.

my warning bells begun to ring as i saw this holes with resources in there.such design mistakes i expect at most,from noobs;you serve them to evry terran on the silver plate.the way you wanna defend them against a terran is for me a mistery...fact is you can't!only because of this the map will never work.

but as that wouldn't be enough you made yet another design flaw;you allow terran to control the islands from the mains.on 6 & 12 partially;from blue & teal they can reach only the gas and comsat(only 12).on 3 & 9 totally;from red & purple they can blow up everything on the nearest island. i saw this also at the first sight,but i just wanna be sure if it's a total control over all the 4 islands.you can check the rep;i test it only for this purpose.

i really appreciate it that you tried out to make a 4 player map on 128*96;but from my own experience with (4)embryo i can tell you that it's really stressful to create a viable design for this size.why? because you don't have enough room available,and with each new expansion the map become more & more cramped
Lancet
I said the gas issue mostly applies to the main not the nats.

If the gas in the nats proves to be too vulnerable you can move it to a more sheltered position towards the main (closer to the ramp). Then terran with M&Ms will still be able to reach the mineral clumps but to get the hatch and prevent the gas from being mined they will need tanks.
MorroW
blues is the least ugly one main

ill draw a picture for u: teal vs red, teal some easy turtle and red got no nat. u know what this is? this is rotical imbalances which forcing it to be a 2v2 map (yes it is that simple)
LostTampon
nice map
maybe you could swap the backdoor nats with the normal nats; so the backdoor nats wont be exposed so much and it's easier to defend them. also the middle would be a bit more open i think
Crimson)S(hadow
ZOMG GAS EXPO SUNKEN AND TANKABLE = T IMBA

gosu logic, no?
Nightmarjoo
Crackling, when Nostalgia was popular, zvt was played very differently. I'm confident that nostalgia would be very t>z if the current pros played on it.

I dunno about zvp, but I think t>z. I dunno for sure, 3hatch gives z a lot of minerals and 2gas. Lurk first gives terran's gas expo hell, and idealy can contain t until hive tech or so. Higher ling count than normal in the beginning of middle game should keep terran from geting free drone kills at the gas expo and from containing z initially. Muta first can also give hell to terran's gas expo, and do damage elsewhere, but can't as definitively contain t.
If z plays is right, I can see terran having trouble. The problem imo arises the moment z loses a battle or makes a single mistake, then t has a good chance of shooting the gas expo's drones, which isn't fun and shuts down the 2nd gas. Also, easy 3 bases for terran is never good for z. Terran can easily FE to their min only since it's safer, they don't need 2gas. Tanks allow t to both protect their gas expo's workers and to move out. I have no clue how the timing works out on the map, but terran will move out fairly strong, and once he has his 3rd base and 2nd gas he'll be in good shape, and be in a position possibly to fuck up zerg's gas expo.

Essentially, what it seems like to me is, if z plays perfectly terran will have a tough time, but the moment z slips up a bit, he can be in trouble. Just very dynamic unsafe gameplay; makes for an akward game imo.

I think p>t, but it could change in an instant like zvt. The gameplay can work the same way in zvp, but I think in zvp both z and p have a lot more flexibility in what they can do.

I dunno how the islands will fit into gameplay, I imagine they'll be important though.
I don't like 3/9's islands, they look tighter and more awkward than 12/6's. I don't care for the islands in general, but see how they can cushion gameplay.

Huh, in conclusion I can't conclude any ideas on balance for any mu, just that the map looks hard to play, and I personally like easier maps ._.
spinesheath
Well, imo the map simply is quite a bit too small.
If the distances were longer and the middle was wider, z/p would have a better chance to get ahold of the middle before t can crush their naturals. It will also be easier to intercept a terran when he moves out. Imagine the situation where the terran can just move that short distance in clockwise direction and find his opponent's natural. The map is too tight at these spots because the terran could also place some tanks inside his natural, covering his push but being invulnerable to e.g. zealots.
SiaBBo
t>z.

Crackling
well we have a new promap with no gas at nat :D
and its using exactly the same main/nat/3.multi combination like nostalgia :x

for those who dont know which map, here it is



nvm i have no fucking clue how ZvT should be possible here lol >.<

ok i think i will connect the islands to the center and use the Troy assimilator thing :O
but i also will place a Hive there (not blocking the hatch/nex/cc) but just for creep so zerg can expand easier

will this be gosu? :)

modified by Crackling
modified by Crackling
Crackling
uploaded some reps of me raping testbug :x

doesnt show anything at all xD
Nightmarjoo
testbug, stop going easy on crackling. You're allowed to rape him, you won't hurt his feelings.
Testbug
what? i never commented this map :S
what is nightmarjoo talking about? xD

okay, i found it!
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=610
Replays


--Grief_Stricken vs KI(1on1, 1.15)
--Crackling vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
--Crackling vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
--Crackling vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)

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