|Nightmarjoo edit: I played a guy on this map though I haven't seen it released, I'm uploading the map from my downloads folder. You can now download it.|
NOTE: MAP NOT YET RELEASED. MAP FILE IS A RENAMED MAP FOR FILLER UNTIL THE ACTUAL MAP IS RELEASED. SORRY.
New MSL map.
modified by Nightmarjoo
|Aw :( Someone took off my admin powers? Why? T.T|
|do those crystals cause pathing issues or what?|
|Ask TestBug :O I think he featured some in one of his recent maps.|
|No, they don't. They had those crystals in Athena and Othello too.|
Crystalis formations or any other sprite will cause path issue (it is like arkanoid or HH sprites, or the xel naga in the middle of the reverse temple)
athena was unwalkable tiles/doodads under the sprite, so units won't use that path.
Crackling made the same in his latest map "Grief Stricken" and ice map with rock doodads under the crystal formations.
crackling and Gi Bum Song appealed to this because there is no direct transition from high basilica to high dirt or high cliff.
unsless you are Testbug of course:
they us this protoss special building because it is invincible.
if you use a xel naga, after killing it you will be the unwalkable tiles below
modified by Testbug
|I like this map alot|
|Templar, there was a "hacker" at the site, and most people's admin power was stripped for security.|
|NastyMarine you like this map a lot?|
maybe that's because you are a terran player.
no matter where the protoss build their gateways, they'll get tanked. all the main base can be tanked from the highground.
and terran can use the highground like in bluestorm, for a factory liftoff or mass drob while pushing the nat.
|Oh come on, on reverse temple there wasn't a big problems with tankable mains either. Besides, if terran can get a safe position on his enemy's highground it should be gg anyways.|
|in reverse temple protoss can build its gateways with no problem.|
|The gmcs seems a little more to the right than what I expected, but doesn't matter.|
At these locations you should have more than enough space for 6-7 gateways. YOu most likely won't have more than that with main and nat. If your nat is safe you have quite a bit more space as well. Well if your nat isn't safe you are dead anyways.
And once you get your 3rd/4th bases you should really have secured your highground.
|i gues you have never seen a game @reverse tempel.|
but look, 12 and 6 can be tanked.
there is no safe 3rd gass for zerg.
the minonly can be spinel vallied from the lowground.
|Geez, I was only talking about the gateways.|
And at the bottom left position where I set those gates you definately have enough space for a bunch of them. Sure the placement will be a litte awkward, but I never said that this is a good map :p
|Purple seems to be the only one to worry about placing his Fac's or gateways, but even then, he could easily fit 4 or 5 in the early game below his ramp.|
You're right about 12 and 6 though, unless it's just very deceiving in the map picture. We'll have VODs soon though to see it in action :)
|there is a lot of room to build gateways without worry of being tanked. A tank's range is part of the game stop bitching ROFL|
|Nah, not really. There are maps that are much closer to this than Vertigo. I'd even say ReverseTemple is closer to it.|
|Poor zerg, needs a gas fundraiser on this map :(|
Just as Testbug said, no safe 3rd gas for zerg.
The korean coaches do try to avoid a certain race or matchup on some maps, to have a greater chance of winning
|What are you talking about, gas is easier on this map for zerg than on lost temple, a slightly z>p map. Anyways we actually found out that less gas is actually anti-toss for both T>P and Z>P.|
Terran pushes don't look very flankable on this map though.
|How should the third gas be harder than on lt? Oo|
On LT you take a main as your third gas and put 2 lurks on the ramp (zvt btw). Here you do the same, but your lurks will be BELOW the ramp. This makes it harder to defend.
|It's way closer though and the ramp is connected to your nat basically instead of disconnected on the other side.|
|very good map !|
|btw spines about that,, those lurkers are mostly just to prevent terran for a full marine attack and delay them to get through... the tank sure hits 100% now but how many seconds are we really talking about here :)|
|The main2main distances are much longer here than in most other maps we're used to. That being said, the long distances overall help zerg more in the long-run.|
|A guy played me on this map today, I have no idea where he got the map from, since it's not released on teamliquid or even on mapdori lol.|
I uploaded the map from my downloads folder.
I'll upload the replay too I guess. I played a pvz. It felt hard to expo as protoss, the 3rd base felt far away, and while the 4th base wasn't far, just overall it felt like zerg was just incredibly mobile, that the map really favours mobility and the use of alternate paths. I think that's good though :)
|Well of course those lurkers are meant to delay the terran. Ideally until you got a nydus up and a few defilers with consume. And 2 lurkers help you a lot to make it that far.|
|SC2GG.com summed up the map's MSL statistics so far:|
EDIT: (Personally I think it's more enjoyable to watch than Return of the King, though.)
modified by jeb
|zerg has never won on this map in the last 9 games played on this, what could be the reason?|
|Hard to say just by looking at the map...|
Maybe muta harass is too hard? No cliffs to hide at the nat, and you need to fly a long way or straight over the ramp to reach the main.
|Shows how bad my pvz is, I thought the map would be z>p for sure lol.|
|The map is also discussed at TL.net:|
|I find it very interesting to discuss maps that are actually being used... so here it goes...|
*** MSL SPOILER WARNING (matches played 2008-08-21) ***
I saw a game where Mind (pretty good terran, methinks) lost to Zero on this map. I tried to pay extra attention (since I expected the zerg to lose) on problems with the map itself. However, it turned out quite surprising, much due to very poor play by Mind (sending units on suicide missions). Zero didn't even have to harass Mind's SCVs. The game was also played with cross-positions, if that makes any difference. At least it breaks the 100% win ratio of terran :)
In the second game, BackHo (toss) defeated Clay (zerg). What BackHo did was to really clog up the choke with cannons (three first, then a fourth when Clay moved in). The natural choke is actually exceptionally tight on this map, leaving barely any chance of running past and down the ramp.
This was maybe Clay's problem, because his Spire was really late. He was probably aiming for a hydralisk front break, but had to stand back when he saw the fourth cannon warping in. He placed a proxy hatchery outside BackHo's natural instead, and that strategy aaaaaalmost worked. But unfortunately, due to great corsair scouting by BackHo and some mis-microing by Clay (lost 8 hydras to a single storm), he lost in the end.
So ZvP is down 0-6... There are two more games on Byzantium to watch, though. I'll be back :)
|Yeah corner positions have huge distances, so I'd much rather zvt in corners on this map, there's just so much weight off your shoulders at that point.|
|Ok, here's the next MSL group:|
*** MORE MSL SPOILERS!!!! (matches played 2008-08-21) ***
Ok... The next Byzantium match was between FireBatHero (terran) and Fake Yellow (zerg). FBH spawned at 10 and Yellow at 7. What happened now was that Yellow's muta harass was very successful (he even reinforced it). He managed to find a safe haven between the natural and the main along the cliff, which forced FBH to endlessly run up and down the ramp. The harass put FBH at a disadvantage, and lost the main battle a few minutes later.
In other words, two ZvT wins now.
The second game was a TvP between Koala and nbs. I don't know much about either player, but this was the loser's match so maybe they're on the B-squads of their teams (MBC and CJ).
The game started fairly standard, with nbs going for quick DTs followed by arbiter. The game was sealed early on, when Koala made a successful vulture drop and nbs' counter-drop made no damage at all. This could've happened on any map.
Koala made another vulture drop, and when nbs moved his forces back to take care of the threat, Koala moved his army and destroyed nbs' natural. nbs was able to break the contain with a DT (Koala was probably out of scanner energy), and lived to see another day.
However, while nbs tried to expand at 3 o'clock, Koala moved in again, and after a short battle nbs GG:ed.
I didn't see anything remarkable about the map in this game, except the rotational symmetry made it slightly easier for Koala to drop in nbs' main. When Koala moved in the first time I thought the game was over, because I wouldn't think an upwards contain could be broken... Anyway, PvT 0-4.