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Last update for (3)Moon Tear II : 2008, 08, 15 23:41
|mapID||Mapname (comments)||map size||Author||Rating||Type||play type|
|3187|| (3)Moon Tear II|| 128*128||Testbug||2.4||final||ground|
The map has been rated 45 times and got a total of 108 points
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|i want to overwrite the old moon tear mapfile.|
but first i may need some feedback.
test replays had no islands
|Can zerg survive in this? |
great looks at least ;)
modified by RaDiX
|Um no. why would you overwrite a motm? are you an asshole? your getting kinda full of yourself|
|About the map:|
I love the execution and layout. But i think you should widen one of the bridges at each expo or both imo. But I think test games could prove against it. We shall see.
|Well, zerg will want to get that gas expo asap, but with the cliff and 2 bridges and because of that expo being so close to the other bases an fe to that position is unlikely to work.|
You probably could even siege behind that cliff.
And if zerg doesn't get the second gas in tvz he can't really go muta, making cliff drops so much more hurtful.
modified by spinesheath
|what i can do is move the geyser to the nat, but i think this map is very complete like this :(|
@NastyMArine: of course i am an asshole.
moon tear is just an unplayable map.
so i made this new version with the same design.
i will repleace it when this1 is finished.
minonly nat (like original moon tear) is suppose to ve P>T, Z>P and T>Z so i added the bridges to help TvP and ZvT (like hwarangdo did)
because of the tightness of the bridges, protoss will now have problems vs terran, that's why they need the islands.
islands also help PvZ, and 12, 4 and 8 multies can be cannoned very well.
Rush Hour doesn't have a choke and zerg can't deffend the nat with sunken colonies, but because of the double main to main routes and the birdges (where lurkers are too strong) they could survive.
not only lurkers are good in bridges, tight places + defilers helps zerg (see Azalea)
Zerg can take the 12/4/8 zerg friendly expos vs terran.
islands are also important ZvT
|The probem is that zerg won't get to defilers.|
Muta tech -> no chance to ever get the gas expansion because with 1 gas muta you don't have much of a chance to hold the terran back long enough. You will only get out very few lurkers after that.
Lurker tech -> t gets fax and port and starts dropping your cliffs.
Fast expansion to the gas -> I don't think you'll survive that.
|No gas at natural hurt zerg very much.|
|Looks damn good, but aint no gas at nat a bit unorthodox ? |
modified by djdolber
|it's one of your best imo,like the conceptual flow thru the map|
here & there some small errors have crept in.the cliff on the red nat help tanks more than on the other bases;from there tanks can blow up a larger area in this main in comparison to blue or teal.also the left islands look larger than the right one.the point is the larger ones can be used as small bases - on the right one it is not much room.i will try to fix it.
the idea whitout the gas in the nat is kinda bold,perhaps too bold.i won't mind because the small expo is tankable - damn on gaia the nat is tankable too,so what? but on gaia the bridge is larger and helps z/p to come out in greater number if they have to.i fear terran can hold the bridges to easily so they can prevent z/p to expand to the gas.you have 2 possibilities.1.enlarge more the bridges;and the gas can remain there.if z/p wanna play a gas intensive strat he can expand here before he own the nat.2.if you wanna keep the bridges like they are the gas has to go in the nat.look for yourself at the moment z/p can use to their own advantage only the middle of the map - the rest is terran soil.i would enlarge the bridges - this way you will preserve an interessting feature in the map.perhaps you can give the expo than 6 min rocks to make a second expansion there more attractive
|i don't know if wider bridge or tighter bridges would be better. this map is P>>T without bridges.|
and bridges are said to help z>T a little (rush hour, nostalgia, hwarangdo)
i enlarged the bridges for improve the path movement, but what about 2 normal bridges? (like nostalgia and hwarangdo)
the difference with RushHour is that zerg had a geyser at the nat, and whith muta tech it could get a 3rd gass before switching to lurkers.
(lol, like in any other normal map)
okay, here zerg can leave the bridged gass for latter on. and expo to the 12/4/8 multies.
(like 12/4/8 Nostalgia multies)
terran will have to save for another command center and invest on defenses, etc.
but will only gain 5 mienral fields.
Test games will show, and Grif es right again, the possible solutions are:
1)enlarge the bridges
2)move gass to nat xD
|another very cool map by testbug :D:D|
|I'll ask tl what they think =/|
|No Comment fron Nightmarjoo?|
|I forgot to post it. I'll post tomorow ._.|
I really don't know on my own. My understanding of gasless nats is that they fucking suck, which is biased and rather uninformed, as I've played no zerg games on Hwarangdo, and I hate Nostalgia (but played it a fair amount, when I was a complete noob).
When I played RH3 I thought it was z>p, p>t, t>z. I might be wrong though, as I wasn't nearly as good/smart when the map was popular.
|change the islands mineral formations so it can be supported with 1 cc.|
the gas expansion at 12 o clock got wider choke than the others. some cut copy might be needed. the other ones can be blocked off with 1 barrack. also hex-wise it is wider.
there are 2 randomly unbuildable jungle tiles at reds position.
having the nat dropable from both temple behind and the islands is very imbalanced. this will favour terran tanks alot. personally i would push back the temple behind making the temple undroppable and so turrets can be placed behind. pushing the islands alittle bit closer so lurkers can hit down at ALL positions like in tau cross. the second option is to push back the islands alittle by just making some unwalkable stuff at the islands so tanks cant aim the natural from island.
the temple behind nat is very imbalanced put.
- teal got 2 spots of temple (put them together by making some temple behind, nothing big).
- blue got 1 big one where lurkers can attack from anywhere (this pos is best to drop at).
- red position is alot like teals, 2 dropplaces (put these together). also due this temple is very close to down edge of map dropping units is much harder. (having it to down edge making it 1 hex smaller than it actually looks). so atm u can only drop lurker at the left edge and the right edge of teals nat. you must fix this!
blues main choke seems wider than the others but that might be fine hex-wise since everyone fe in pvz. but it looks like 1rax cant block of zealot at blues choke meanwhile the others can.
blues island reaches out closer to blues expo more than the others making 1 "island" extra for drops. having many drop holes like this protoss somtimes drop dts or zealots at them to prevent terran from dropping. but with many different options terran can micro off protoss simple
due to the shape of mains (wont explain what i mean with that), the startlocation should be 1hex closer to edge. leaving it 1 hex behind that scouts can go through
there are unwalkable tiles at some bridges
outside reds nat theres a bridge to the left. between that bridge and island units can walk through even tho u put those trees there. this will cause pathing issue and for most positional imbalance
you can storm from reds main and put lurkers in reds main to aim over to the gas expansion to the right. my point is that the distances are different and this position is closest. personally i would move that gas position alittle bit away instead of adjusting the other 2 expansions.
a personal thought here: i think all bridges should be alittle wider
the middle expansions you shouldnt be able to hit over with a lurker from behind the temple. it looks like you can do that at reds middle expo. this might effect late game and how important it would be for terran red to keep attack mdidle cuse the swarm+lurker prevents him from using expand. now im not sure of this i didnt test, u should :)
personal thought: i think u should remove some more of islands other side where tanks can sit and attack the gas expansions. this map got really many tank holes and this island shouldnt be able to tank anything imo.
outside the gas expansion between teal and red - it is more cramped than the other positions. start with removing the unwalkable doodads around that area and if still the same i would push back the bridge alittle. then hopefully its less cramped and reds "between the bridges" area will be smaller but its still biggest so it should only do good.
teals nat area is largest, the distance to ramp for example. u should neither push in the ramp alittle at teals place or push out it some more at teals position since hes bridge area is largest and hes nat place smallest. tho if u do that it might be too much decreased area at teals bridge position if u combine this with the "push back bridge" suggestion i mentioned earlier.
personal thought: i think this concept is really big and really hard and also its 3 player map at a strange map size. this is very well done and things i mentioned are important that you fix or this map will have a very bad gameplay. and i think it favours terran tank drops too much atm. good job so far and again, i hope you did what i said now.
--Nb.Feel vs Nb.Crackling(1on1, 1.15)
--Crackling vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
--Crackling vs Testbug(1on1, 1.15)
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