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Last update for (2)Avarice : 2008, 09, 11 10:26
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3230 (2)Avarice 128*128Nightmarjoo0.1betaground

The map has been rated 49 times and got a total of 5 points
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Nightmarjoo
Ok here's my new map Avarice. The whole concept behind it I guess is the seperation of the two halves which you have to go back and forth from.

On the left side you have a normal nat, your 3rd is a min only and is kind of far/vulnerable, and then there's the neutral gas expo which is easily harassable from the cliff behind it. There's room to maneuver, with the backdoor side path things on the other side of the temple for running through to avoid the enemy or something.

On the right side, you first have sort of an andromeda min only, except it's not part of the main itself. For the most part it's much safer than the other min only, and has one fewer mineral blocks, but can be easily harassed by most ranged units from the middle, but you should be able to control that part of the map alright or something, though that backdoor could possibly undermine control there a bit.
The nearest ramps to the right side, one directly past the min only and the other connecting to the middle, are both blocked with highground xel naga temples (if shooting from the lowground you'll get hit minuses with ranged units and you might not be able to see it). While your main does have a ramp which not only is not blocked by anything, but is also larger than the default ramp, the xel naga temples greatly increase the distance from your opponent's backdoor to yours, but many forms of rushes and/or proxies can exploit this entrance. Good scouting will be imperative on this map, as things are so spread out that if you're on the right side, especially if the xel naga temples are still present, you could really be fucked from the length of time it would take to respond. So thusly while the expos on the right side might be somewhat safer, they are quite far from your other stuff.
The 3rd gas potentially could be one of four expansions, including the two neutral expos, one being an island, the one I'd assume would be taken most is the corner expo, analogous of that in blitzx. The 4th gas expo will probably be the highground expo, which is somewhat vulnerable to harass from behind.

Overall it's important to get the neutrals down in a timely manner so you can better use the entirety of the map. You'd be hard pressed to use only one side of the map I'd think, so carefully maneuvering between the two sides is important.

Double entrances can be quite hard on zerg in zvt, so I gave them an ovy spot right next to the backdoor ramp, an ovy on your opponent's backdoor ramp ovy spot will notice anything coming out of there, and the long distances give you plenty of time to respond to such a threat appropriately, as well as giving you the opportunity to try and counter terran via the main route or something.
Also, zerg can place his 3rd hatch on the backdoor ramp if he wants, and he can easily make sunks there if he needs, with the ovy giving him enough time to make those sunks.

For terran in tvp, I think the distance alone makes any non-proxy attack come too late to do damage via the backdoor ramp. While later on it could be harder to defend both ramps potentially, the same threat exists for protoss as well, so I consider this balanced enough.

Same thing for zvp for the most part, except FEing could be difficult. I haven't come up with a remedy for this yet. I need to test the timing on things, for it might be possible to FE with 2 cannons and then make a cannon in the main on the pylon, I somehow doubt this timing will work out though ~~
Actually overall this map is pretty hard on protoss in zvp, any suggestions on helping that are definitely welcome.
Best thing I can think of is for protoss to scout with one of his original 4 probes, and leave if zerg went 9pool.
Well, one thing I can think of is putting a mineral or two on the big ramp to make the entrance smaller. Zerg can't send drones to mine it realistically unless he proxy hatches, which is actually something tactically practical on this map lol.
I really really really really do not want to fully block the backdoor ramp though :(

Things to note:
Pathing sucks balls on this map. To scout you have to aim for your opponent's nat (or anything on the left side) because otherwise it will try and take the right side, and then get stuck on the xel naga temple lol.
And of course any movement on the right side will give pathing issues as long as the xel naga temples stand, forcing some mad way-point use.

Except for pvz being impossible, I like the way the map turned out, it more or less follows my original idea, except I had initially wanted the left side to be more important, but I placed the main too far left for that to work out, but despite that the map seems ok to me, except in zvp, and protoss is imbalanced anyway so they can suck it up.
MorroW
so when p fe and z 9pool speed. the lings can run the other way and attack p's main?
and z will need about twice ammount of sunkens before terran attacks?
i dont think that ove spot works, terran just puts marine at hill then sees the overlord by vision and 1 marine at down side to kill it

i dont think anyone will expand at the 3 middle expansions in middle. is it possible to make scanners at them?


i like the looks of this map and how its done (where ramps are placed and expansions etc).
but i dont think this is a balanced map i think its t>z>p

a safe way to secure balancing is to put mineral block in the wider main ramp, but i guess u already know this.

good job on execution on an interesting map concept thats for sure imbalanced
SiaBBo
Fast exp, byebye.
LasTCursE
wow night the map is very cool! but what the fuck is this GIANT comment :D:D:D:D
Nightmarjoo
I dunno morrow, I haven't tested the ovy spot yet, I'll look into it.

Yeah it's impossible to make scanners there. I think people will use them if their opponent is mostly on the right side or something like that.

Yeah I'm gonna have to block the ramp, I just don't know with what yet. I don't want to make it too big of a block, so that it can be useful early game, but at the same time I need to make it so that protoss can FE pvz. Maybe I'll make a mineral block which you can hop over, but with a fairly high mineral value.
illisid
avarice is a good song
SiaBBo
Make it 72? Cuz if i remember right that 5 player league map have 72 block? That is good and you can make a sneak attack if u come to mine it. It is 9 workers but its sneaky.
Nightmarjoo
Bleh, I forgot that you have to mine it out on your opponent's side too to use it, I'll have to make it lower if I want it used.
JungleTerrain
You can try some Plasma eggs on the backramp, and some minerals with 0 value on unwalkable terrain that you can see or something, using ScmDraft.

You should be able to come up with something.
Map looks fun to play, but I don't look forward to protecting 2 ramps.

Good job, good concept
Nightmarjoo
oh wow, you're right. Those eggs are amazing lol, they have applications everywhere, I'm pretty sure I'll use the eggs, thanks.
Neon
Added a replay, not sure if it's the latest version of map.
I doubt the replay says much about balance since our skill levels are quite low, fun map nontheless.
Nightmarjoo
Hey I'll watch it as soon as possible, thanks! You'd be surprised how helpful anything and everything can be, really!
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